Misconceptions about adoption- help me clear them up

[Nc4post99]

Hi all,

I’m in my early 30s and pregnant with dc 2. DH and I strongly feel that for numerous reasons (not financial or fertility related more environmental and social), dc2 will be our last biological child but that we’d love to adopt a child and give them the life they truly deserve. This is obviously quite a few years away (at least 5) but we’ve always been vocal about our intent as we are passionate about it. Lately however it’s been met with sneers and skepticism as to whether we’d be allowed to from family and a few friends.

I’ll list their reasons below:

1. We would have 2 (younger) biological children- apparently that doesn’t look good from an adoption point of view. We’ve had a few comments on this one, they’d know they aren’t blood family and wouldn’t get on/ would resent each other. Adoptive sibling might hurt one of dc etc…
2. we both work full time (same reason as above) but we both would get adoptive/ parental leave which is the same as mat/ pat leave?
3. house size, we currently have a 4 bed home but it’s likely we’d upsize in the future to 4 bed+office anyway so this seems moot to me.
4. DH and I are an interracial couple (he is south asian and I’m white european) I’ve been told that they’d only place children of this exact mix with us, whereas I was under the impression that used to be the case but isn’t anymore. I understand this to an extent, a child being raised In their own culture, especially if it’s an older child.
5. we are Muslim, we are progressive but still observant. I’ve heard this would be a big problem, especially for younger children. That they wouldn’t place a child born to non Muslim biological parents with us.

Id really appreciate any sort of clarity on or around some of these points, if they are true or other wise? Xx

1. Would not rule you out but would be discussed in depth as part of the process. If you're talking in 5+ years then this would be fine for younger children up for adoption.

1. Not a problem. We also both work full time and have been approved.

1. A 4 bedroom would be perfectly adequate for 2 bio children + 1 adopted child. The requirement is that they have their own room.

1. Interracial couple would not rule you out.

1. This would be discussed with you during the process but would not rule you out automatically at all - there will be plenty of muslim adopters and adoptees out there!

@MrsMarvellous

1. Would not rule you out but would be discussed in depth as part of the process. If you're talking in 5+ years then this would be fine for younger children up for adoption.

1. Not a problem. We also both work full time and have been approved.

1. A 4 bedroom would be perfectly adequate for 2 bio children + 1 adopted child. The requirement is that they have their own room.

1. Interracial couple would not rule you out.

1. This would be discussed with you during the process but would not rule you out automatically at all - there will be plenty of muslim adopters and adoptees out there!

Thanks for your reply @MrsMarvellous.

If we looked at 5+ years children would be a minimum of 5 and 7, but of course we may end up looking at it more than 5 years from now anyway. What would be the kind of things discussed? Might seem a naive or silly question but I am a little clueless.

With regards to being Muslim, does it automatically preclude children born to non Muslim parents, even if it were a very young child/ baby/ toddler? Do you know?

I’ve had a Muslim friend who fostered (of course fostering is different), she fostered children born to agnostic/ Christian parents and she had to celebrate x mas for them and wasn’t permitted to even use the mosque crèche (which was pretty non religious) when she went to prayers/ classes. She wasn’t allowed to bring them to coffee mornings held at the mosque either I don’t think. Would it be similar?

@Nc4post99 to be honest I’d stop being ‘vocal’ about it. You are clearly several years off doing anything about it so why not focus on enjoying the children you do have rather than arguing about something in your future which may or may not happen.
I think you are also running the risk of making any adoption public property, inviting intrusion into your parenting choices and more importantly the life of any child you adopt

But to answer your specific questions
yes you can adopt with birth children, but they will be at least two years younger than your youngest child, unless there are exceptional circumstances.
Many people with birth children adopt successfully. But some do experience difficulties. Adopted children usually have some level of additional needs, some are very complex. Yes they might hurt your birth children, yes your birth children might resent them. And they might not.
Its a risk you have to be prepared to take.

Yes you will get adoption leave, but have you considerd the fact that one of you may not be able to return to work full time, if at all? I’m 9 years into my adoption, I still work part time.

Some adopted children cannot tolerate childcare, what will you do then?

Adopted children will need their own bedroom.

Social workers will always try and place children with a family that reflects their ethnicty. However, there is a shortage of ethnic minority adopters so this probably won’t be an issue.

Being observant Muslims is not a problem. However, I would think it would be unlikely that you would be placed with a child born to non Muslim parents. Equally, it would be very unusual for a Muslim born child to be placed in a Christian family.

[quote Ted27]@Nc4post99 to be honest I’d stop being ‘vocal’ about it. You are clearly several years off doing anything about it so why not focus on enjoying the children you do have rather than arguing about something in your future which may or may not happen.
I think you are also running the risk of making any adoption public property, inviting intrusion into your parenting choices and more importantly the life of any child you adopt

But to answer your specific questions
yes you can adopt with birth children, but they will be at least two years younger than your youngest child, unless there are exceptional circumstances.
Many people with birth children adopt successfully. But some do experience difficulties. Adopted children usually have some level of additional needs, some are very complex. Yes they might hurt your birth children, yes your birth children might resent them. And they might not.
Its a risk you have to be prepared to take.

Yes you will get adoption leave, but have you considerd the fact that one of you may not be able to return to work full time, if at all? I’m 9 years into my adoption, I still work part time.

Some adopted children cannot tolerate childcare, what will you do then?

Adopted children will need their own bedroom.

Social workers will always try and place children with a family that reflects their ethnicty. However, there is a shortage of ethnic minority adopters so this probably won’t be an issue.

Being observant Muslims is not a problem. However, I would think it would be unlikely that you would be placed with a child born to non Muslim parents. Equally, it would be very unusual for a Muslim born child to be placed in a Christian family.[/quote]
I should clarify when I say vocal, i personally have always wanted to adopt, period, since I was a young teen so my family are aware of how I’ve always felt. Can’t explain just have always felt that way and have articulated it growing up, so there’s that. The rest is largely due to people asking ‘when will you have a third etc’.

Also no one is arguing about the potential adoption, my asking was for my own understanding on these issues that have been presented to me as blockers.

Also re part time work, sure in the future our careers will have advanced and it wouldn’t be an issue. We are also lucky that we both have the option to condense hours and get lieu days

But you did say people were sneering, which doesn’t exactly sound supportive.

Also being asked about whrn you are having a third when you havent even produced number 2 yet, would feel to me to be incredibly intrusive. But maybe thats just me.
Adoption can be a very long and stressful process, and speaking from experience, its really not helpful if people are continually asking you how its going, when are you going to be approved, matched etc etc.

@Ted27

But you did say people were sneering, which doesn’t exactly sound supportive.

Also being asked about whrn you are having a third when you havent even produced number 2 yet, would feel to me to be incredibly intrusive. But maybe thats just me.
Adoption can be a very long and stressful process, and speaking from experience, its really not helpful if people are continually asking you how its going, when are you going to be approved, matched etc etc.

Yeah we have had sneering comments tbh mainly around us being mixed race as a couple, but you know takes two to argue so just tend to side step.

I agree those sort of questions are intrusive, they even come from medical professionals. Seems to be one of those things.

When the time comes it will be a journey we keep close to our hearts for all the reasons you cited (and more)

But it’s nice to know that the things that have been presented aren’t the inherent blockers we have been told.

Lol they're bloody idiots! Most people are surprised that I was allowed to be adopted by white people when I'm half cast. People think they know all about it when they're not even tried to research. Bizarre

Oh your sneerers sound horrible, ignore them! We are approved and awaiting matching and have 2 children already aged 5 and 7. I would say its all taken a lot longer than we expected, they kind of say itl be 6 months but its so much longer, been 2 years for us now so just warning you as I imagined ours close in age, and in talking about it to your children, all abit slower than we imagined!

@scully29

Oh your sneerers sound horrible, ignore them! We are approved and awaiting matching and have 2 children already aged 5 and 7. I would say its all taken a lot longer than we expected, they kind of say itl be 6 months but its so much longer, been 2 years for us now so just warning you as I imagined ours close in age, and in talking about it to your children, all abit slower than we imagined!

They are! People can be real a- holes.

Do you mind me asking what sort of questions were asked in regards to your other children. PP mentioned it would be discussed 😊

I agree with everything said upthread- there are big potential risks to any adoption (as there are with any birth) but you deal with them as they come. You specific situation will be part of what comes up in assessment, and as matching considerations, but it sounds like you will be in a very strong place by then.

In particular 4 and 5 are certainly not barriers, indeed there are many situations where they will be assets.

Do you mean questions asked by other people or within assessment?

Ive not had any negativity from anyone Id have to say.

If regarding in assessment, its a hugely lengthy and in depth process, they spend time with the kids, the kids do worksheets etc, theyve needed to see how we interact with them etc, its just your life for a long time! And it was discussed in Panel a lot, I guess that was our thing to go into really. So not sure of exact questions. They want to know how we parent them, how we discipline etc, how the kids might cope with the changes etc, they get a reference and follow up chat with school, they want to be sure we have support for the kids when it all happens, like who will take them out without upsetting their routine etc.
You do have to adopt two years below youngest child, or at least we did.
I think thats all I can think of??

@scully29 oh yeah I just meant as part of the assessment rather than by ‘people’ as a whole.

Thanks for the information that’s really good to know! X

You really need to hold in mind adoption isn’t remotely like having a birth child, their futures tend to be very uncertain- the younger the child the more uncertain their future simply because so many issues only present as children grow. So thinking about the impact on your birth children is important especially if you work full time when they are small and then need to change that for an adopted child (I don’t know any adopters where both parents work full time). Religion is an interesting thing, and one of the things birth parents can express a view/preference for in terms of adopted parents. I’d keep quiet just now, you don’t know how you’ll feel when DC2 arrives, I’d deflect any questions for the time being about further children and just see how you feel in time.

@Jellycatspyjamas hmm not sure about your theory there. Much easier when adopted from birth and therefore younger than if they're older and knew their birth parents before being adopted. Do you have experience in this? I think the OP understands it's not the same as birthing a child. Slightly patronising

@lifehappened

Its not a question of being ‘easier’. I adopted a nearly 8 year old, he came complete with diagnosis, DLA, statement of educational need ( as it was then)
I knew exactly what I was getting, it didnt make it easier, but I had no surprises and I was prepared.
I know many, many people who adopted babies or much younger children who have ended up with exactly the same, or even more complex, issues as me.
They had to fight for assessments, EHCPs, referrals, etc whereas as I had most of it in place.
Adopting a younger child is no guarantee of avoiding or escaping complex, traumatised children.
And to be honest, many people don’t realise it won’t be the same as having a birth child.
What’s your experience?

It's not a competition but I was adopted as a baby, no issues whatsoever, nor my other brothers and sisters who were adopted as babies. My brothers and sisters who were adopted as older children have been problem after problem because the poor things remember a previous life

Of course I totally understand it’s not the same as having a birth child, but I do agree that quite generally (probably due to tv/ films and celeb adoption) infant adoption is presented as being the ‘ideal’.

Completely get the point around an infant not being diagnosed and then adoptive parents having to fight for a diagnosis, this is similar to the for bio/ birth children. It seems to be a huge battle regardless, there is though potential trauma of an adoptive child to be mindful of.

Thanks for all the replies and your personal story @lifehappened. It’s good to know that l the factors I listed above aren’t firm nos! Xx

Its not just about whether a child remembers.

Many adopted children are for example impacted by the mother drinking during pregnancy. You can remove a child at birth, the ‘damage’ for want of a better word, has already been done, but the affects may not become apparent until the child starts nursery or school.

Much easier when adopted from birth and therefore younger than if they're older and knew their birth parents before being adopted.

That doesn’t account for what we know about pre-birth trauma on babies, the impact of substance misuse on babies which can carry into childhood and adulthood. The idea that adoption at birth is better because the child can’t remember their birth family has led to some very damaging assumptions made about the needs of such children. Some babies adopted at birth will have few additional support needs, some will have issues which only become apparent as they grow and some will have life long challenges attributable to their pre-birth experiences. It’s not necessarily easier to adopt a new born than an older child or vice versa but there are different considerations with each age group.

Do you have experience in this?

In short, yes.

On the interracial family point, I have relatives who are an interracial couple and who successfully adopted a child in the UK.

Their child is matched so that they 'look' similar to their parents, but aren't exactly the same racial heritage. They are being raised in their adoptive parents' religion and in both of their cultural backgrounds - eg speaks her adoptive mother's native language fluently, which is different from the language she would have learnt if she had stayed with her biological parents.

I sometimes think that the racial matching is a bit racist - their child is racially matched from a white British perspective but perhaps not from the perspective of her biological parents. My husband is from the Middle East and he often comments on poor racial matching in UK TV dramas ("That guy doesn't look Syrian." "These people are supposed to be Lebanese but they're speaking gulf Arabic" etc) but which I wouldn't necessarily have noticed. It's worth thinking about the impact on your future adopted child if they look identifiably different from the rest of your family. Racial matching is about cultural heritage, but it's also about having autonomy over when you identity yourself as adopted. If everyone from your husband's family / country could trivially identify your child as having a different ethnicity from him, your child no longer has control over a very import, personal part of their identity.

@InvisibleDragon

On the interracial family point, I have relatives who are an interracial couple and who successfully adopted a child in the UK.

Their child is matched so that they 'look' similar to their parents, but aren't exactly the same racial heritage. They are being raised in their adoptive parents' religion and in both of their cultural backgrounds - eg speaks her adoptive mother's native language fluently, which is different from the language she would have learnt if she had stayed with her biological parents.

I sometimes think that the racial matching is a bit racist - their child is racially matched from a white British perspective but perhaps not from the perspective of her biological parents. My husband is from the Middle East and he often comments on poor racial matching in UK TV dramas ("That guy doesn't look Syrian." "These people are supposed to be Lebanese but they're speaking gulf Arabic" etc) but which I wouldn't necessarily have noticed. It's worth thinking about the impact on your future adopted child if they look identifiably different from the rest of your family. Racial matching is about cultural heritage, but it's also about having autonomy over when you identity yourself as adopted. If everyone from your husband's family / country could trivially identify your child as having a different ethnicity from him, your child no longer has control over a very import, personal part of their identity.

I do get that point to an extent, but as we are a mixed couple our bio children already do look ‘different’ from our family on both sides, more so from my husbands than mine. So an adoptive white, asian (Indian subcontinent) or a mixed race child would 100% visually fit in, culturally too of course. I’d say the same about an Arab child too.

In certain communities, arab and south Asian there is a distinct stigma on adoption so I do imagine there is a shortage of adoptive parents for those poor children

@Jellycatspyjamas I'll telling you a fact, that is the reason my brothers and sisters have had troubles. Just because it's not your experience doesn't mean it didn't happen so no it's not damaging to relay that information as another point of view, which I think is allowed

@Ted27 in my experience yes it's because the child remembered. I was there, I lived it. I'm not saying it's the same for everyone but that's what my family lived with, so we know!

@lifehappened

No one is disputing your experience or that of your siblings
My son is absolutely affected by his early experiences, he is also very impacted by his in utero experience. That would have been the case if he was removed at birth.

many prospective adopters assume that a baby removed at birth will be easy and less traumatised. That is not always the case -it is this assumption that is being challenged, not the individual experience of you or any other adopter