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Adoption

Here are some suggested organisations that offer expert advice on adoption.

Why I’m No Longer Talking To Non-Adopters About Adoption

85 replies

Moominmammaatsea · 01/11/2020 21:12

With sincere apologies to Reni Eddo-Lodge for the rip-off title of my thread (by the way, Why I’m No Longer Talking To White People About Race is a truly magnificent read and the essential handbook for anyone who wants to understand race relations in Britain today), but I am heartily sick of folk on here being told we’re wrong/doing it all wrong/and it will all go wrong...because we’re all wrong.

Just that really.

OP posts:
UnderTheSleepingBaby · 14/11/2020 21:38

I am not an adopter, but am always drawn to these posts when I see them as I am a social worker and it is helpful to hear about peoples experiences (although I rarely cross paths with adopters as I'm earlier in the process)

I wouldn't usually post, but noticed several times that people have said it is good these posts no longer appear in "active threads" (and I can see why that is good having also seen part of the referenced thread) but I came across this one because it was in my active threads lists... Don’t know why that would happen if it isn't supposed to but didn't want to step back out without mentioning it incase it starts happening more.

While I'm here I'll also say how highly I think of adopters, knowing the difficulties so many of you go through before you reach the adoption stage of your journeys and seeing the trauma these children have generally been subject to before reaching that part of theirs, it is always wonderful to read about the commitment and dedication of adopters to do for these children what no one has ever been willing or able to do for them before. I'll stop waffling now (probably too late) and quietly step back off the adoption board, while wishing all of you the very best in the future.

Moominmammaatsea · 14/11/2020 22:36

@UnderTheSleepingBaby, please don’t stop reading or posting here. It sounds like this forum/thread could be a really useful resource for you (I’m guessing you’re working in family support or early intervention?) As the originator of the thread, I think the point I was trying to make is that adopters, especially those further along in the continuum, deal with so much crap day in day out (we’re often the proverbial swans with the unruffled feathers but madly paddling like billy-o beneath the surface in an attempt to convince the (often very judgmental) world that we’re fine) that when we get lectured on parenting traumatised children by those who have not walked a centimetre in our shoes it sticks in our throats.

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Allington · 16/11/2020 14:36

Yes, Ted27 talks a lot of sense as usual!

And I would add, I am in the middle 'chunk' with DD2, but we were one of the 'breakdowns' with DD1 when she went back into care at 15.

Except… she remained very much part of our family. She couldn't handle living in a family, but that didn't mean we just walked away. Six years on I am still very much 'Mum' and DD2 her little sister. They chat most days, DD1 and I usually at the weekend (she's at Uni, so not nearby).

I don't recognise the 50% figure, and I also don't see the breakdown of a living arrangement as an example of adoption being a failure. DD1 - now she is her 20s - has openly said that nothing could have stopped her going through a horrendous teen phase, and it was the 'anchor' of her mother and sister that enabled her to get through it, back into school and to a calmer state of mind. As part of that she stopped living with us earlier than I would have wanted, but she never stopped being my daughter.

percypetulant · 16/11/2020 16:02

"but she never stopped being my daughter." This is it. Teenage estrangement is not unique to adoption, yet teens being teens is seen as a "failure" for adopters, yet one of those things for birth parents.

I don't recognise the 50% figure among adopters I know.

UnderTheNameOfSanders · 16/11/2020 18:16

"but she never stopped being my daughter." This is it. Teenage estrangement is not unique to adoption, yet teens being teens is seen as a "failure" for adopters, yet one of those things for birth parents.

Thank you. This has given me hope.

Enko · 17/11/2020 08:34

I am not an adopter but I read this forum a lot (I think I have posted twice over about 12 years)

I read because I have friends who have adopted and it means I as a non adopter understand how to respond when they speak of their children. I've due to this not put my foot in it a few times as I've known to not compare to my parenting experience. I was able to tell a friend (some years back) that the school application had changed and her sons secondary school preferences had changed so x lac children were also part of first preference. She returned later that day for school collection telling me she was thrilled id mentioned it. She had gone home and researched and found out I was telling her the truth and her son went to the school she felt was the perfect fit but we lived just outside catchment area of.

For me as a non adopter this forum has given me a wealth of information and understanding for an area I didnt know a lot of before despite having 2 cousins who are adopted.

So I would say please don't stop talking to us non adopters but I do accept its hard when people don't get the difference. Just for me the understanding I've gained from your posts here have been immense and I am grateful.

percypetulant · 17/11/2020 08:47

Enko for me, the difference is where non-adopters post parenting advice to adopters, or tell adopters how they're Doing It Wrong.

I would love friends and family to read here, absolutely! You're a brilliant friend.

Moominmammaatsea · 17/11/2020 09:53

@percypetulant

Enko for me, the difference is where non-adopters post parenting advice to adopters, or tell adopters how they're Doing It Wrong.

I would love friends and family to read here, absolutely! You're a brilliant friend.

Couldn’t agree more with this. I’d add that I wish more professionals (including those working in children’s social care) read here to find out the reality of living with children with attachment and trauma-related behaviours.
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Adoptodad · 17/11/2020 23:21

I bore my mates so much about our little one already without the adoption part. Our friends don't fuss about that part as it what we do today that matters.

When we do tell people, doctors surgery etc they all become very friendly and helpful. I get a lot of awwws aren't you good. In realty we are just very happy to be parents to a wonderful little child.

That other thread is a bit odd.

sassygromit · 21/11/2020 10:40

@percypetulant

I have definitely seen you post parenting advice, mentioning your own child, in a way that sounds like you're an adopter, without clarification that you're not an adopter.

Your experience as an adoptee may be relevant. Your parenting experience just isn't.

This isn't specific to you. Parenting a birth child (no matter the circumstances) is different to parenting an adopted child. I do both. You may think there's enough overlap for you to have stuff to say, but you're a non-adopter telling adopters that. You can argue that if I don't want to listen to non-adopter parenting advice, I should go elsewhere, but I think if adopters are being told to go elsewhere, because I non-adopter cannot cope with the rejection that sometimes adopters don't want advice from non-adopters, then the point has been lost.

I am put off posting on threads when you post your "advice".

Your experience as an adoptee is useful where people want to hear from adoptees. But depending on your age, that may or may not be relevant. Your parenting experience of parenting a birth child is irrelevant to adoption.

But I've made this personal, when I don't mean to. Generally, adopters want parenting advice from adopters, and should be able to get it on the adoption board without having to ask whether posters are adopters themselves. That's why threads don't appear in active, because non-adopters wading in is annoying.

@percypetulant I am not returning to the thread generally but I asked MN to delete my posts upthread which responded to yours because I had put in too much personal information and I had the intention of re-posting but my computer screen then broke and so I am doing it now. This is not to continue some kind of feud - I agree with your point of view on some issues as expressed on other threads, and I think you raise valid points here even if I don't agree with you about the conclusions.

Firstly going back to the other thread, when adopters say "Thanks but no thanks" to advice from non adopters. In a nutshell, I think that where ac are happy and thriving or where adopters are coping or getting the right help and things are going in the right direction, no one will be telling the adoptive parent what they are doing wrong. Where this is not the case, then people are more likely to be concerned about the child rather than caring whether or not the parent wants their input. This applies to non adopter parents too.

In relation to adopters knowing best, there is growing awareness that there is a lot wrong with current adoption practice and a part of this is training. I think it is misconceived that adopters are not required to read up extensively on normal child development and evidence or research based parenting as part of the training as this appears to lead to a domination of non research based parenting methods in adoption circles, yet when adopters seek professional help, the help is going to be research based. I think it might be these sorts of problems which are causing the unmanageable situations, not the underlying trauma. These are personal opinions though, I am not posting as an expert.

Is parenting advice from adoptees relevant? Do they know what they are talking about?
Yes imo and tbh most people I know are genuinely astonished when it is suggested otherwise. Adoptees not only live through it and get through it, but, in addition, in order to process their childhood and move on they will have to, as an adult, develop an understanding of both their point of view and their adoptive parents' point of view. When adoptees have children of their own many report having to deal with a difficult resurfacing of issues around their childhoods, compare how they want to parent their children with what the parenting they received, just like most adults, and will reach conclusions about how they were parented. This will apply even if the adoption took place a long time ago. In addition, a great deal has not changed in adoption in decades. Therefore yes I think the advice is relevant and on MN I think it should be the adoptee's judgement call when and how to post, not as instructed by adopters. It is the adoptive parent's call and responsibility to decide what to take on board. In relation to your comment that adoptee advice is just that one adoptee's perspective, exactly the same applies to adopter advice.

It is extremely difficult for child adoptees when their adoptive parents are not coping. I appreciate that adopters want professionals to know how hard they find it, as posters have said here, but I can assure you, being the child in that situation is not easy.

People who adopted more than about five years ago will not have had nearly the amount of accessible help adopters have now and that will have made a difference.

Yes imo non adopter parents of traumatised children will have valid input as there will often be overlap in terms of how trauma manifests as well as therapeutic work recommended.

Sorry about the long post. I am out now again but if you want me to reply to anything specific then you can @me or PM i don't mind being challenged on my thinking at all.

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