Why I’m No Longer Talking To Non-Adopters About Adoption

[Moominmammaatsea]

With sincere apologies to Reni Eddo-Lodge for the rip-off title of my thread (by the way, Why I’m No Longer Talking To White People About Race is a truly magnificent read and the essential handbook for anyone who wants to understand race relations in Britain today), but I am heartily sick of folk on here being told we’re wrong/doing it all wrong/and it will all go wrong...because we’re all wrong.

Just that really.

If adoptive parents want advice from parents parenting birth children, there's the whole of the rest of Mumsnet. If they post here in adoption, asking for the advice of other adoptive parents, then they want the advice of other adoptive parents.

If they want social work advice, they generally know how to get it, having access to social work.

If they want advice from general parents, they'll post any other place on Mumsnet.

percy if you want to ignore the advice I give here, or the advice any other adoptee gives, or anyone else gives, that is your call.

I do, don't worry. I don't think it's fair if non-adopter advice is not highlighted as such, though.

To be clear, I don't ignore adoptees, when taking about their adoptee experience. That's important.

I do ignore non-adopters regarding to their parenting experience. Because that's irrelevant. If I want that, I'll pay elsewhere on Mumsnet. Or ask in the

myriad other places non-adopters chat.

*post. Sorry, phone.

I think it could be helpful for people to state "adopter", "adoptee", or "birth parent" in their advice. As I give different emphasis to their advice based on that.

There are few spaces for adopters, and we need support. From adopters.

This thread isn't about me ignoring anyone's advice. It's about a number of adopters finding non-adopters unhelpful.

Why would a non-adopter want try and advise an adopter, with no experience of parenting an adopted child? But they do.

percy I am not sure if you read what I wrote about parenting - there is a lot of overlap. As I said upthread, I disagree with how you see nonadopter contributions. As an adoptee I think nonadopter input is vital. Many nonadopters have personal and/or professional experience would make their contributions invaluable. Adoption is too isolated as it is, and imo (as an adoptee) there is too much misinformation and poor practice. So I disagree with you here as I said upthread. More research and investigation has been promised by the BASW and if that happens then that will change the situation though.

You ask "why would they want to" - a nonadopter's motivations will be the same as any poster on here who offers advice.

In relation to support I completely understand why you would want that from other adopters, on the other hand. I am not a member of the NATP but I understand that it is more exclusively adopter to adopter support so you might find that better?

You think I should leave the adoption board because you, a non-adopter, wishes to continue to post parenting advice to adopters, without declaring that you're not an adopter?

You may think adopters need advice from non-adopters. Adopters are saying "thanks, but no thanks", and you, a non-adopter, and saying we're wrong?!

I get you're an adoptee. And if you were posting giving the adoptee perspective, that's great. But often you're posting about your child as if you are an adopter. And I don't think that's fair on adopters adding for adopter advice. And I don't think the answer is for adopters to be told to go somewhere other than the adoption board. If you, as a non-adopter, want to offer parenting advice, you have every other parenting forum.

I have said I am an adoptee consistently percy ....

I have definitely seen you post parenting advice, mentioning your own child, in a way that sounds like you're an adopter, without clarification that you're not an adopter.

Your experience as an adoptee may be relevant. Your parenting experience just isn't.

This isn't specific to you. Parenting a birth child (no matter the circumstances) is different to parenting an adopted child. I do both. You may think there's enough overlap for you to have stuff to say, but you're a non-adopter telling adopters that. You can argue that if I don't want to listen to non-adopter parenting advice, I should go elsewhere, but I think if adopters are being told to go elsewhere, because I non-adopter cannot cope with the rejection that sometimes adopters don't want advice from non-adopters, then the point has been lost.

I am put off posting on threads when you post your "advice".

Your experience as an adoptee is useful where people want to hear from adoptees. But depending on your age, that may or may not be relevant. Your parenting experience of parenting a birth child is irrelevant to adoption.

But I've made this personal, when I don't mean to. Generally, adopters want parenting advice from adopters, and should be able to get it on the adoption board without having to ask whether posters are adopters themselves. That's why threads don't appear in active, because non-adopters wading in is annoying.

@sassygromit @percypetulant

maybe its time to draw a line under this?

Happy to. I've made my point.

Sorry, my post crossed with that of @ted27

So touched you even remember me!

I wonder if there’s a way for you both to continue this privately if you’re so inclined - continuing to stoke the fire isn’t particularly helpful and has massively derailed a fairly important discussion. Or you both could just stop.

@jellycatspyjamas I am sorry about the derail, I think if you and others want to continue with the important discussion then you should do so and yes to taking this offline - percy I don't have anything else to say but if you do, feel free to PM

Well, the thread has come full circle and I think (wearing my agent provocateur hat) that my initial point has been illustrated beautifully.

moomin, I would say that it perfectly illustrates that adopters should be talking to non adopters more.

However, I would also like to say that this discussion has been far more civilised than it would have been a few years ago, which is fantastic progress.

I am not sure if you intended to imply this, but I don't think there is really a comparison to be made between adoption issues and race/civil rights issues. Do you?

I don't think personal attacks are acceptable and what you said is not true. I will leave it there with you, I am out and will hide the thread, so you can continue to discuss as you wish with others.

I am late to the thread, but agree with you OP. Although I would probably extend it to adopters AND parents of children with SN, who tend to understand that you have to adapt your parenting to your child's needs, even if they don't know the specifics of adoption.

They also tend to understand, from their own experience, the lack of support, judgemental attitudes, struggle to be acknowledged as an expert on your own child and what works for them etc

Hi Allington, I’m glad you posted here and revived what could (still) be a really useful thread for all adopters and prospective adopters to share their lived experiences of the scrutiny of their parenting from those who really don’t understand. It’s a shame that the thread become bogged down in dogma and acrimony (and, if I’m honest, I do regret my own lack of proportion (is that the right word?) in my last posting) I do agree with you about the overlap between SN parenting and adoptive parenting as I’m sure that if we drew a Venn diagram featuring the two the ‘bit in the middle’ would be huge.

It’s such a shame the thread was skewed as it was as there were some absolute gems in there, such as Ted27’s response to a prospective adopter - I especially love her ‘middle chunker’ description of those of us for whom being an adoptive family resembles a rollercoaster ride, where we experience highs but also real lows.

In addition to the title of my thread, I would also add that if I had a £ for everyone I’ve encountered over the past 12 years (how long I’ve been an adoptive parent) who assured me that they too will be adopting when their birth children are sufficiently grown, I would be an extremely wealthy woman. As it is, I’m not, and there are currently nearly 80,000 children in care. And no one who has ever made that utterance to me has ever gone on to adopt.