overseas adoption

[tazzy]

hi
I'm new to mumsnet, and just wanted to say hi. I live in Ireland and have 2 great kids ds adopted 5 yrs ago from Thailand , and dd adopted 1 yr ago from Vietnam. i know the system in ireland is very different to that in the uk, but if i can be of any help to anyone thinking of going down this route i'd be happy to help. Nice to meet you all!!
Tazzy

[KristinaM]

hi tazzy and welcome to mumsnet

[beemail]

tazzy . Good to have you with us. There are a few intercountry adopters on mumsnet and it's good to have more countries represented.

[Kewcumber]

ooh hello - my travelling companions when I adopted from Kaz are Irish. We stay in touch via the web - isn;t technology a great thing?

[Meggymoose]

Hi Tazzy (and anyone else who could add) - Would love just to get your take on this - (hope it doesn't cause offence - I'm genuinely interested) - why overseas and not domestic adoption?

A bit about us - Dh and I are very fortunate and have 2 birth DD's. We know our family is not yet complete and there is no reason as far as we know why we wouldn't be able to have a further birth child. However, we are extremely drawn to the idea of overseas adoption (as opposed to domestic) with a particular interst in China (Dh is Chinese). From my preliminary research into OA I get the impression it is almost frowned upon in some areas. It hasn't put me off, but I am trying to rationalise why it is OA and not particularly domestic adoption that draws us. Thanks!

[Kewcumber]

ICA is frowned on in many circles (some social workers and a lot of the public) the social workers disapprove really on the grounds of trnasracial adoption not particularly the intercountry element IME. The general public tend to diapprove for two reasons:

1 - general perception is that ICA is all about "buying" teeny-weeny cute ickle babies by middle class couples

2 - a general feeling that it would be "better" for you adopt domestically. (but always from people who have not adopted at all

Thats the slightly cynical hard-core version.

Undoubtedly many people opt for ICA over domestic because they want a younger child (ie under 2) and would not be prioritised by SS for some reason - if they're white, their age, if they're single, etc

having said that SS are desparate for non-white or mixed race families to adopt domestically and I'd really urge you to consider it. ICA is a long hard expensive process. You will be expected to pay for your own home study at costs up to £6,000 and the wait for a match in China is currently forecast to be 3 yrs shortly (currently 2 yrs) and thats after being approved and getting your documents together and getting your certificate of eligibility from Dfes which could easily take 18 months depending on your council.

[Kewcumber]

Thats a home study cost of up to £6,000 plus whatever it costs in the country of adoption, plus translation, notarisation and apostille costs... I won't go on!

[Issy]

Welcome to Mumsnet tazzy!

I have two girls, one adopted from Vietnam 6 years ago (she's 6.5 now) and one adopted from Cambodia 4 years ago when she was 12 months old.

[Meggymoose]

Kewcumber - that's really interesting and useful - thanks.

[KristinaM]

I agree with kewcumber - there is a real shortage of mixed race families and you and your Dh could adopt a baby really quickly here in the Uk.Especially if you woudl consider a children from a range of asian ethnicities, not just chinese or part chinese.

You will soon discover that SS are real hypocrites on the issue of "trans-racial placement". Basically they only have two races, white and non white. So if you are a euro-chinese family , they would not consider placing a thai or korean or malay child with you to be a trans-racial placement

[Issy]

Bizarrely, after we'd adopted DD1 (Vietnamese) we (totally white-british) were told by SS that we should consider domestic adoption as we were now a 'multi-racial family' and would be considered for non-white adoptees.

[beemail]

We started by contacting our LA with a view to domestic adoption child under 5 and said we would consider child with disability, one who had had multiple placements etc We were however persona non grata though
Husband is of Indian origin and I'm white British.
We were told they wouldn't place white British or Indian children with us and mixed race children would have to be of our exact mix - eg no 1/2 Muslim Punjabi children. This was difficult for us since these children are very rare in the British care system. Although I understand the reasons for same ethnicity/religious background placements and of course where birth parents have expressed preferences they should be respected we watched mixed race children in Be My Parent languishing in the care system for long long periods. We then decided to take the intercountry route - by no means easy and very lengthy but no have 2 delightful daughters. I still think that our initial enquiry was handled badly though. So our experience was not that there were only white and non white children but that we had to be the exact match for a child geographically, linguistically and of the same religious background to be considered for domestic adoption. I do however think that there is now a little more flexibility and think it would be worth contacting your LA for an initial discussion. Also the Intercoutry Adoption Centre runs information days for those just beginning to thing about ICA - does anyone out there have any experience of these??

[KristinaM]

I cant believe you were told that Bee!!! Thats appalling! There are so many black and mixed race children in the system here. Its especaily hard to find families for children from a Muslim background because of cultural reasons - i cant belive they turned you down.

if you ever think of adding to your family I know of several agencies who would LOVE to have you

[Kewcumber]

I know someone applying for overseas adoption who was approved to adopt a christian child only (at panels insistence not hers). despite the fact that she is not a practising christian and how on earth would you be able to guarantee that a child abandoned at birth (generally) would be christian. Bizarre. I can only think that they were trying to stop her adopting an asian child but didn't want to say it openly.

This was only 2 yrs ago and a london borough.

[KristinaM]

??????? these people are mad

[KristinaM]

but many Asians are Christian- how would they know????????

[Kewcumber]

she has adopted a little boy who probably has a Russian Orthodox birth family. So thats OK because she knows all about that

[Kewcumber]

my toughts exactly Kritina but I couldn;t think of any otehr reason why they would make such a bizarre condition. Of course it was totally impossble for them to enforce in pratice.

[KristinaM]

btw how is Ds doing? not sure if its ok to mention him by name as i see you are in name changing mood. He must be 19 months now? I assume you are teaching him to read in English, Welsh and Russian

and how is doting granny?

[Kewcumber]

DS is doing fine thanks - fine to mention him by name, I have changed as my name was sooo obvious but I'm nto relly that sensitive about it.

Obviously he is fluent in all three, though struggling a little with the russian grammar...

[Meggymoose]

It's really intersting to hear your experiences. As I said initially we are still in the early stages of exploring the option of adoption and we are by no means set on the idea of intercountry adoption and would certainly consider domestic adoption. I think on balance we do feel that we could best accomodate a child of a similar culture as we work hard with our DD's to instill elements of their Chinese heritage which would be irrelevant to a child of a totally different culture. I would not have thought that children like this are common in the British care system though?

[KristinaM]

I agree meggy - thats why so many adopters prefer to go back to the same counrty to adopt subsequent children

if you join adoption uk and get their journal they have lots of adverts of waiting children. you coudl get an idea of the ethnic mix

your local SS only knwo about ( or care about) "their" kids so they are usually not a good source of information about waiting children across the uk. Quite often SS actually need to place children outside the local area, either because they cant find a suitabel family locally or for reasons to do with the child/ren's background. thats oftn even more important if the children are black or mixed race

[Kewcumber]

I have friedns who adopted (domestically) a 4 month old with a singaporean chinese background (they are both white) so it does happen. As far as I know she is healthy and happy.

[Meggymoose]

It's really positive to hear that it may be possible then. Do you know whether social services would wait for a suitable child to come up in your own area or would they look for suitable a suitable child to be matched from anywhere in the UK? I get the feeling that they would prefer to wait for a child from their area but with a shove in the right direction, might look elsewhere for you? Still all a bit new!

[Meggymoose]

Have had a brouse on the adoption UK website as you suggested Krisina and where mixed race/asian ethnic minority prospective parents are concerned it all seems a bit negative. The general jist seems to be that there are plenty of mixed ethnicity approved prospective adoptive parents out there but not children, even where the parents are prepared to widen the ethnicity of child they will accept. This strikes me as quite a representative website?

[KristinaM]

I found this on their site - from last month

-More-ethnic-minority-adopters-needed 23-Jul-2007

The children?s charity NCH has used the BBC?s adoption season to draw attention to the shortage of black and ethnic minority adopters.

The ?Family Wanted? season came to an end this weekend after a fortnight of television and radio coverage, including documentaries, appeals and a storyline in hospital drama Casualty.

NCH spokeswoman Jean Smith told the BBC Asian Network that with three black or Asian children needing adoption for every one home with adopters of a similar background, more ethnic minority adopters were needed.

She suggested placing ethnic minority children with white parents leaves children without a sense of cultural and religious identity later in life.

Adoptee Nick Pendry is of Indian origin and was adopted by white parents in the 1970s. He told the radio station: "My cultural and racial sense of self was missing and that can't be made up later in life.

"I had a period of time when I wanted to be white and every time I looked in the mirror it was a bit of a shock to me that I wasn't.

"There's something inherently unfair that white children in care have the option of having a cultural match more times than black and Asian children."

Currently around 10,000 of the UK?s 80,000 looked after children are black, Asian or of mixed heritage.

Agencies try to find cultural and racial matches, but the shortage of prospective adopters from these communities can mean black and Asian children waiting a long time.

David Holmes, from the British Association for Adoption and Fostering (BAAF), said cultural and racial matching was about trying to "reinforce the child's background and ethnicity", suggesting: "We think that's one of the factors that can really help a child to settle in a new home."

Ismail Aman, director of Foster Care Link, which specialises in black, Asian and ethnic minority placements told the BBC that more Asian children were being put up for adoption because of social changes within their communities leading to increased family breakdown.

He suggested drugs and alcoholism had become more prevalent, and domestic violence and child abuse were increasingly dealt with publicly rather than within families.

Source: www.news.bbc.co.uk