To tell DD1 that she shouldn't constantly muscle in on DD2 and her friends at school?

[Lizzie48]

DD1 (9) has always struggled to make friends at school. I've spoken about this before on this board. We faced this problem last year and the therapist who assessed her noted from her observations that the other children were excluded and she wasn't able to interact with them. She told me that she played with her 'invisible fairies' in the play, which I found very sad.

The school put work into helping her with this. One of the TAs helped her learn strategies for making friends, alongside a few other children who were having difficulties. She was also told that she should speak to her teacher about it if she had a problem and they would ask for volunteers to play with her. They used their 'wow' system as an incentive. )You get 'wows' for good behaviour, with a merit certificate awarded once they've earned a certain number of 'wows'.

It seemed to be working and DD1 also became close to one child in particular. But she doesn't always want to play with DD1, which is of course her right.

But instead of speaking to the teacher, she tags along with DD2 (6) and her friends. The problem is that DD2 is very much resenting this now, and has said that she doesn't want DD1 to join in. It all came to a head on Friday when apparently she threw DD1's sun hat over the fence. DD2 is denying this, she says that DD1 did it. It doesn't really matter who's telling the truth in this, but I can believe that DD2 did do it (although DD1 is considerably taller so I'm slightly sceptical).

Anyway, I've told DD1 that she shouldn't muscle in on DD2 and her friends, she should play with friends from her own year. She was upset, saying that she didn't have many friends, and I do feel bad about it. However, I also understand very well why DD2 feels that way, as DD1 does hurt her at home (she hurts me too). The school also seem to have stopped helping her with this. Though maybe they overlook it precisely because DD1 is regularly trying to play with DD2.

I hate to think that DD1 would end on her own as a result of this, but DD2 has shown annoyance about this before. I'm really wondering how some of you would handle this?

Tough one, I think it’s important to reassure DD1 that’s it’s also OK to play on her own (or read a book). But she would probably benefit from finding a best friend. Could you invite kids for playdates (1to 1) so she gets to know them better?

Our school have a buddy bench in the playground. If you sit on the bench the idea is that other children will invite you to play and the teachers on playground duty can keep an eye on those struggling.
But we have an infant and junior playgrounds so in your situation your dd1 and dd2 would be on separate playgrounds anyway.

I have done that. She's had a sleepover with her friend and that went really well. I've also had friends to our house for tea before but they've ended up complaining that she 'follows them around', which is essentially what DD2 is complaining about.

I've told my eldest exactly the same thing, backed up by the school staff who've deflected them away and it has worked - eldest now has their group of friends, youngest has theirs and while they sometimes play together the "meet me at the start of lunchtime by the basketball hoop and bring X and Y with you" nonsense has stopped.

Are there any play cards, marbles or other fashionable game that she could play woth her friends? I am thinking things along Pokemon/Yokai watch cards or those miniature pets/grocery items.

The buddy bench system sounds great. I'm very annoyed that the school have taken their eyes off the ball because they were on top of it last year. We have a meeting with her class teacher and the Senco in a couple of weeks so we'll flag this up then.

I'm coming back to this thread because I would value advice on how to improve things between my DDs. DD2 is becoming increasingly hostile towards DD1 and it's very sad. DD1 will be away for the next 3 days (2 nights) on a school residential. She really wanted DD2 to give her a goodbye cuddle, but she refused. I told her not to be unkind, but DD1 can be very demanding in the way she asks for cuddles, she holds out her arms and tries to force the issue. It occurred to me that I shouldn't force her to give her sister a cuddle, as I'm not comfortable with hugs myself at the best of times.

DD1 has no understanding of cause and effect. She can't see that the fact that she regularly hurts DD2 has caused the problems. DD2 broke a bone in her wrist this week and DD1 actually hit her hard on her bad arm. She can't get it that if you go on hurting someone eventually they won't want to be around you.

The more she pushed for a cuddle, the more DD2 didn't want it. She said, ' You're talking like a baby.' And then she said to me, 'I hate cuddles except from you and Daddy.' So I really don't know whether I should tell her not to be unkind and give her a hug' or tell DD1 to respect her boundaries. I suspect the latter is the way to go, although it's awful seeing DD1 feeling rejected, like she is at school.

Has your DD been assessed by an educational psychiatrist? I know she's seen a therapist but I'm wondering if perhaps there could be some additional needs at play here.

You are storing up years of sibling resentment with your children. They probably won't even speak to each other when they are older if you don't change tack immediately.

Firstly, stop feel guilty for DD1 because giving into DD1 isn't helping her. (1) You're teaching her that she doesn't have to be considerate to people's feelings which is a bad lesson and will lead to further isolation (2) you're destroying an important critical relationship with resentment.

You're teaching her nothing. DD1 doesn't see the connection between her behavior and negative consequences because you're not giving her any! If you still force your DD2 to cuddle her despite being hit, why would she stop hitting? Connect the dots for her and set some boundaries between their relationship NOW.

Her sister could be a great lifelong friend and ally to her, supporting her and laughing with her but YOU - not your daughters - YOU - are destroying that through your parenting. It's not either of their faults, it's yours.

I can't help anymore with the friends thing apart from what others have already said.

All I can say is that I wouldn't push the hug thing. I don't like to be touched myself and if my DM pushed me to hug my sister when I was younger that would have caused a whole load of problems. I would speak to DD1 and try and get her to understand that not all people like to be hugged and we should respect people's boundary's.

DD1 hurting people, including you, does sound quite concerning to me.

I do agree with @jamoncrumpets that crossed my mind too.

Does she have any known additional needs or is that what you're meeting the SENCO about?

DD1 should, with support, learn to respect DD2's physical boundaries and learn social interaction techniques but professional support is key

As it happens, in the end I didn't force her, as I do understand about boundaries, I was abused as a child so I do get it. I started off trying to make her, but stopped myself. Because I don't like it. I just felt very sad for her.

Yes we're trying to push for her to get help. She was assessed a couple of years and she has SPD and Attachment Disorder. So yes, we are facing up to it, very much so. But because she's not as bad as other adopted children we're still waiting. She's also not far enough behind at school, and isn't violent at school, so she doesn't qualify for a formal ECHP. She has hearing aids so she does get some help.

We also have meetings with the SENCO, and will be having one in a couple of weeks, so I'll flag this up with them, about the playground situation. Our DDs are birth siblings, and we made the choice to adopt DD2 so they could be together. So I possibly have been trying too hard.

DD2 prefers the company of friends to that of her sister at the moment, which I obviously understand.

It sounds a bit like you see DD2 as a playmate/helpmate to DD1 rather than your child with needs in her own right. It's not her job to parent or excessively manage DD1. Please don't take offense but maybe a tiny part of you feels that she owes you and she owes DD1 for being adopted? Because without DD1 she wouldn't have been adopted by you in the first place, right?

That's a tough burden for a child to carry.

Yeah Saiya, I thought this comment from OP was a bit odd 'ur DDs are birth siblings, and we made the choice to adopt DD2 so they could be together'

Surely you just adopted two sisters?!

No, we adopted DD1 at age 1. Then her birth mum had another baby who was taken into care and we applied to adopt her as well. She came to us at age 1, too.

No, I don't think she owes us anything. If she hadn't been placed with us she'd have been placed with another adoptive family. I cringe when people say how lucky they are to have .

I don't want her to look out for DD1. My DM has always expected me to look out for my brother, who is mentally ill. I know it's too much of a burden and I'm an adult.

I do sanction DD1's behaviour, I dock her pocket money when she lashes out, or reduce her time on the iPad. She actually thinks I favour her little sister. I do try to be fair but it isn't easy.

I agree with that, absolutely. I've told DD1 that she needs to leave her sister alone. It's not DD2's fault that she has difficulty making friends. The problem is, I'm not there to supervise, so I will be flagging it up at the meeting, DD1's teacher needs to know that it's a problem.

And yes, she is poor at understanding boundaries, it's why she finds it hard to make friends. She's also controlling, wants everything on her terms. I've observed this when they have friends here, our neighbours' children come round to play. DD2 and a friend were pretending to pack for a holiday once. DD1 didn't want to play that game so she sulked. I try to help her but it's very difficult as she's her own worst enemy.

I don't think it would hurt DD2 to be a bit kinder to DD1 tbh.

The buddy bench is for little kids.A 9 yo will be embarrassed of looking like a saddo

@ZX81user

You're probably right, but DD1 is quite young for her age emotionally, that's why she's hanging out with her little sister and her friends. And I do encourage them both to be kind to each other, I want them to be close as they're birth siblings and one day that will be very important to them.

The problem is that DD2 has coped with a lot of violence from DD1, which almost always happens when we're not in the same room. So it's not something she can't control. I think DD2 has simply come to the point where she's had enough. She said after one incident, 'I want to go back to my foster carers, I don't want to live with her.'

This has to be seen in the context of adoption. It's tough. It's not all bad, they can play nicely sometimes, but it has deteriorated a lot in recent times. And DD2 is only 6 and I think sometimes I have been guilty of expecting too much.

I feel you OP, would you consider putting one of them in a different school? I have an autistic ds and dd who is two years younger, we had the same when they were both at school, I now home educate my ds and dd goes to a different smaller school. It was a fresh start for both of them and it has done wonders for their relationship! They now hug when dd gets home from school and will cuddle on the sofa watching a video ds wants to share with dd or playing Minecraft together (having a mutual interest has also really helped)!

I do think that you need to look into books that can help your dd2 understand the difficulties that dd1 has because of her spd and attachment disorder. I would look into books for siblings of autistic children (as attachment disorder and spd together can have very similar triggers as autism). It is very difficult for my ds to make friends which my dd struggled to understand as making friends is something she excels at, as she is a social butterfly.

We still have times when ds wants to play with dd and her friends, if they are over, we get by that through either taking dd and her friend/s out or having a friend over for ds at the same time. Ds has really developed socially since we removed him from school, he has made several friends from the local home-ed group which really has helped give him confidence. Perhaps your DD1 would cope better in a smaller school with smaller classes if possible? (I realise home education is not for everyone, I am an ex-primary teacher so it works great for my family but isn't necessarily the right thing for every family)