Siblings

[mumofblueeyes]

Hi all. We have had our adopted LO for about 20 months now and he has settled in wonderfully. He is 4 and the process has been fantastic. By a strange twist of fate his birth family live horribly close even though they all used to live the other end of the county. The Birth Dad is in a new relationship and lives about 5 miles away (His partners son is in the same year as my son at school which is not a good situation). His partner gave birth to his son today, so a half brother for our LO. The birth mother lives about 10 miles away and is also due to give birth any day. She is still on a very high dose of methadone and has split up with the baby's father. I only know about these new babies due to Facebook/Local Contacts, not from Social Care. My slightly long winded question therefore is, will Social Care automatically know about these new siblings to ensure they stay safe? Should I let them know or does that look like I am an outrageous stalker. How does this process work (do they ask parents if they have a baby taken away before, is there a database??). We have always wanted to adopt a second so are wondering if we may get approached in the future. Thank you for any advice.

Your son isn't in a relationship with her any more

Although tbh...what the actual fuck?

sweeter - the adoption board is placed where it is, only because MNHQ dont really know where to put it....

Parents have complained previously that is is under 'becoming parents' and not 'being parents'....and that it upsets adopters that they are not being parents like everyone else...

does it really matter?.....we are all adults and have something to bring to a discussion surely?...

Sometimes it's useful for a birth parent to be able to get adoptive parents views on things such as changing contact and what could work etc. I don't see that as me moaning about my sons parents I see that as myself trying to make contact work same as the context of things within contact.

I think it is eye opening to know that my sons parents may try to use social media to find me, and I'm glad that they won't be able to as it's in a different name - and always has been.

What your saying is that birth parents are not parents- for me my journey is becoming a decent birth parent for my child in later years. Being a parent isn't just about getting pregnant or adoption it's the choices you make every single day. Adoption affects both birth and adoptive parents and becoming a parent is the same.

I have utmost respect and love for my child's parents (you may notice I always refer to them as his parents because that's what they are). I have never said nor would I that they aren't doing an amazing job. I have raised things where I've felt I was probably being over sensitive and asked for prospectives on it- perhaps it was just badly worded by me or them or both within my contact- am I entitled to feel emotional and get upset when I get contact- of course I am- is it ok to ask adoptive parents their view to try and work out where my sons parents are coming from rather than letting it damage an already fragile relationship between his parents and me- I would say it was.

It's lovely that there are so many of us with such incredibly high ethical standards

I particularly enjoyed the bit where we should tell a gossiping FC to stop.

IMO, if it's on FB, I can look. I really don't understand why that's controversial. It's not going through their bins.

OurMiracle, I'm not going to engage with you. Not because your opinion isn't valid and not because I am being disrespectful but because some of the points I would like to make with you would refer to your personal previous posts and I am not going to do that on this thread. Your opinion on what equates to being a parent vastly differs to mine, and I think that argument would be very upsetting for you.

What I will do is challenge more in future more on this board, as I think a lot of adopters lurking feel afraid to do so. This thread has shown that there are more differing opinions on this board that first thought and that is great!

I stand by what I said. Some posts by birth parents are useful, many are not.

I agree with conserve. I often do, actually.

Social Media is public, if you choose it to be public. Putting photos or news on social media is like putting it in the newspaper- totally reasonable to gather information from there, and thanks to it I have pictures to show the children of their first few hours they wouldn't otherwise have.

If birth parents want to stay private, there are those things called privacy settings. I use them. They're available to anyone.

I wish to differ on birth parents posting here. I find Miracle's perspective important. And, again, this is a public place. Conversations here are like being on the bus, or in a pub, etc. You never know who is listening, and who you can hurt if you're not mindful of other situations and journey's, and I think the presence of all those affected in the adoption triangle is really important.

The people whose posts I generally don't think belong here, although I accept it's public and they therefore read them, is social workers and foster parents who haven't adopted. Because it's an adoption board, for those whose very souls and identities are formed by adoption, who live an breathe it. So adopters, adoptees, other members of families formed by adoption, birth parents, and other members of families where children have been lost to adoption. But that's just how I feel, and I recognise that as a 'pub' type place, there's not tickets on the door.

This has been an interesting thread and I have been interested in lots of perspectives. So here are some of mine.

First to OP and original post - any member of a community can report concerns about child protection. If you feel that there are legitimate concerns for a child's welfare than you can report it annonimously to your local SS team. It will be investigated. However, once reported you need to walk away. There is every possibility that this child will be the child that birth family can make the changes for.

Birth family can and do change. I have seen it first hand as a foster carer (sorry thomasmuggit you don't welcome my opinions but I will come back to that). I had a a little one as a concurrency placement that was virtually a done deal to lead to adoption! Thank goodness it didn't. Thanks to the excellent assessment and support put in birth family were able to turn their lives around and baby was rehabilitated home. Fast forward a few years and there is now a very strong family unit. Second, third and fourth chances are given and sometimes they are justified and one of those chances happen to be the right one. We have to celebrate when birth family grasp that chance. I do accept though that for older adopted siblings this may be challenging growing up knowing their family were able to change for another child but not for them.

Facebook - interesting points made about social workers not being allowed to use Facebook to keep an eye on clients, to save images etc. I agree that they shouldn't but it is a fact that many do. I was horrified when a social worker used Facebook to show me a picture of a lo who would be coming to me. It happens! I have been told by a social worker that plans had changed due to new developments with birth family that they had discovered via Facebook! I personally made a conscious decision when I began my journey to immediately find and block all birth family when I am being placed with their child. This stops them finding me but also stops the temptation when I am tired or emotional to ah e a quick peek. I would have to unblock them to see!

As for the foster carers opinion not welcome on this board - I am hurt. Why am I hurt because foster carers are parents often travelling the same journey, with the same types of kids, experiencing the same traumas and doing excactly the same job as adopters. Surely our opinions and experiences are as valuable as the next. i really would love a further explaination as to why you do not value the contributions of foster carers? I will become an adopter one day but only if it is right for the little one in my care. Only when all avenues with birth family have been explored and adoption becomes the plan will the little one be adopted by myself. My role as foster carer will change a little in that I will become mummy but the my job of loving, nurturing, developing attachment and giving them an understanding of who they are will not change. I will have been doing that from the start as foster carer.

Foster carers have their own board.

Some of us have mixed experiences around foster carers, and I've noticed people can talk about that less and less because someone always pops up with 'foster carers are amazing, I know, because I am one/my sister's one/whatever'.

Similar with social workers.

As adopters, there are few places we can express mixed feelings, or anything less than positive about foster carers or social workers that are in our lives.

Foster carers have their own board. This is the adoption board. As a prospective adopter, you're welcome. But please don't tell adopters how they should speak/feel/act towards foster carers, there are precious few safe spaces to discuss that interface.

Also (and sorry if this is being a hobby horse) to anyone who is still interested, I have just read the BASW's social media policy. Nowhere does it say sws will be disciplined and de-registered for looking up service users on social media platforms or suggest there is an outright ban. It cautions sws to think about the ethical implications and suggests service users might not fully appreciate the difference in saying/doing something in public and doing it online. However, it doesn't suggest to me that a sw obtaining a photo from Facebook of a birth mother for an adopted child who might otherwise not have one or one who is doing her best to work out the identity of birth father from the limited information given would be automatically thus sanctioned. Obviously I don't know how individual agencies apply these guidelines but my son's sw was a consummate professional and I cannot see her doing things she shouldn't. Given that awful case of an adoption order being refused and a child removed from adopters and sent to live with a birth relative of the previously unidentified birth father, I would have thought it would be incumbent on sws to do everything they can to investigate sources of information. Some birth mothers are not necessarily going to give enough or the right kind of information for the DWP to be of much use.

I can see both sides of the debate but don't think there can or should be rules about who can post here. To be honest, I have seen some forums and even real life groups of people become a bit of an adoption echo chamber and think it is healthy to get a range of perspectives. However, I also agree with Sweeter insofar as there should not be an expectation on a forum which is, by and large, for adopters that adopters are going to hold back because they are concerned about offending birth parents or sws (which, in fairness, no one has suggested).

Miracle, I do find your perspective interesting and valuable. As a birth parent would I violate your privacy by sharing your information/photos etc. with people who didn't need to know it? No. In particular if ss stuffed up and sent me your address I would destroy/disregard because that is quite clearly something you have a reasonable expectation would be kept private. However, do I think your right to publish things about yourself online without people you don't know/want looking at them trumps my son's right to information about his birth family? No. If it is out there, I will use it for him. I have a great deal of sympathy for what you have been through and I don't for one minute think you lose your right to some privacy and dignity, however that should be seen through the prism of the reason why birth parents do find their lives under the microscope: the safety of their children. My son's birth mum was scrutinised by social workers and judges because she failed to keep her children safe even before they were born. As a result, they were removed from her and according to social work and adoption psychological orthodoxy those children have suffered trauma and will forever have a hole in their lives. To have an expectation she can then go about her life, publishing things on Facebook willy nilly without those children or their parents looking at that information is unrealistic and I don't think we as adopters and adoptees should be expected to nod sanctimoniously and hold back because she might not quite appreciate the implications of posting online. Again, I have no idea what she might think of any of these things.

Also, the idea that an adopted child no longer has a relationship with their birth family and so no right to look at what anyone else can look at on FB has me a bit or even . We have it drummed into us from day one that the birth family connection is sacrosanct: no name changes, no critical comments to children about their birth families, endless reams of sympathy and understanding expected. So we are honestly expect to swallow the idea that only works one way? When we want information for the wellbeing and safety of our children that we should apply an ethical standard which means we steer clear of publicly available information?!

P.S. If birth mum wants to look on Facebook and see what I think of public transport, TV, and politics, she is most welcome. I have privacy settings but I have taken the view there is no such thing as foolproof and so there is nothing I post I wouldn't want her or anyone else to see.

Barbados, you have put it so clearly and I agree! Thank you for being so eloquent!

I actually don't have a problem with anyone being here at all. Although I do hate it when people who have no connection to adoption turn up to tell us how it is.

But this -

only if it is right for the little one in my care. Only when all avenues with birth family have been explored and adoption becomes the plan will the little one be adopted by myself. My role as foster carer will change a little in that I will become mummy but the my job of loving, nurturing, developing attachment and giving them an understanding of who they are will not change. I will have been doing that from the start as foster carer.

this is really odd because I don't think any adopter here would recognise their relationship with their child in that.

That tells me that you don't understand at all. What you've described there is being a foster carer, not a mother or a father.

You can post here all you want for me - although my child had shit foster carers and I reserve my right to be entirely pissed off and vocal about that, so I can see where Thomassmuggit is coming from - but that post doesn't do the empathy you're claiming many favours tbh.

The question that I would want answered would be why? When I have already provided plenty of photos of my son growing up, me and recent ones of me they would feel the need (or right) to use further photos which I don't know about?

As I have been very open and provided with information I would HOPE that my sons parents felt able to ask for this info before looking via social media however I understand not all birth parents are prepared to share info or photos etc.

The only photo that I feel they may want and my son could do is that of my father, my dad died when I was young and I don't have any of him

Miracle, we're not talking about you though are we? We are not your son's adoptive parents. They probably aren't looking at your social media, especially as you keep it private.

Some of us don't have provided photos etc.

I get that and I don't see it as wrong to want them. I do wonder though if these things as asked for first before Facebook is used.

Many birth parents don't respond at all to contact, or social workers. Given how often mobile numbers get changes, and insecurity of housing, facebook is possibly one of a few constants. Although I know of some birth parents who have many many facebook profiles, as well.

Many don't but for those of us who do surely it's best to ask for this information?

Yes,of course. I doubt any adopter would go looking for information if they could access it easily just by asking. We don't have the time to do things the long way round if we can help it!

I think Thomas and Conserve have really hit upon why there is going to be a bit of a disconnect when foster carers, birth parents and sws come on here.

Almost all adopters I know will instantly recognise the experience of feeling fairly unprepared for answering the kinds of questions our children might want to know (e.g. I have no idea what bm's favourite band is but I can tell you exactly what drugs she took throughout pregnancy). Most of the adopters I know have zero contact from birth family. Zero.

So, with due respect Pinklady you might know all about a case of birth family pulling through and you having a positive interaction with birth family and providing a nurturing but ultimately temporary role in a child's life. You may have seen some of the textbook ideas of giving people chances and coming good actually working. However, the fact that a social worker pulling up a photo which someone has posted for the entire world to see shocks you just shows how far removed you are from the realities of adoption. For a lot of us it is about having a snoop on Facebook so we have some idea of what is going on. The alternative is, what, to tell our 15 year old future child that we could have done more to find out information for our confused, vulnerable children but after considering the ethical implications of not violating the privacy of someone who liked to post things online about themselves we decided that would be wrong? Of course that is the same someone who didn't think about the ethical implications of taking drugs while pregnant with said vulnerable child or who didn't respect the child's privacy or rights sufficiently to take steps to keep them safe. I think my future 15 year old is going to question why her rights to post publicly but not have it read win out. It is rather frustrating, to be frank, to live with this dichotomy: birth family sacrosanct to child, birth family's right to keep information from child, sacrosanct. It is downright galling to have bms, sws and fcs then tut-tutting on an adoption forum and lecturing us about the rather inevitable knock on from that: us using publicly available information to bridge that gap.

Miracle, again, you understand your experience only too well but you don't understand ours and the fact you can only see how unfair it would feel for the parents of your child to look at your social media shows this. This is really a conversation about adopters who keep tabs due to uncertainty (or in the case of the OP, information is bandied about freely and she has security concerns). The vast majority of us do not encounter birth parents like you, who actually provide useful information. However, I think if you struggle to understand and are even fairly outraged by the idea that adopters are not going to chose respecting any feelings you have about your privacy over what they see as the best interests for their children then this forum may at times prove a challenge for you. If the adopters here are anything like me they will be sympathetic, respectful and appreciate you are entitled to your dignity but they will also suggest that you also consider that your expectation to privacy cannot be entirely what it was before your son became involved in the care system and was later adopted.

Again, disconnect. Of course I would ask bm if I could. Why on earth would I rather dig around for bits and bobs on Facebook?! She disengaged completely when Pixie was about two months. Not uncommon amongst adopters, wry nods of heads all round is my experience. When I say we are bridging a gap, that is quite literally what we are doing in many cases.

"Your son isn't in a relationship with her any more

Although tbh...what the actual fuck?"

I see I've caused some "wtf" with this one. Of course my DC need to know about their birth family - we talk about their birth family and will continue to do so throughout their lives. Any letterbox we get will be shared with them and any questions they ask we'll answer to the very best of our ability. They haven't had direct contact for a good while now and won't have direct contact unless they seek it when they are older.

They don't have a current relationship with anyone in their birth family, there's no contact and thus far there's been no communication and I don't expect that to change. They're still related by birth and their birth family are part of their story, an incredibly important part, and while at the moment they don't really recognise their loss I know they will down the line. They do and will continue to need help to deal with the many losses they've experienced and to help them make sense of themselves and their feelings. In the meantime I'm not going to scour social media to try and glean bits of information that may or may not matter to my children - not knowing their birth mums favourite band is all part of that loss, not being part of her life, not having a relationship is the loss. At the moment my DC have far more sense of loss of their foster carers, those relationships ending have been felt much more keenly.

Adoption is such a long, challenging road, I think it's really easy to become very anxious about what we and our little people need and very precious about our own view of parenting. It's an experience like no other and one we're deeply invested in getting right. I like the varied views on here and am often given food for thought. I'm utterly confused about what was so offensive about Thepinklady77 post - her take on what children need from parents seems fair enough to me and certainly reflects part of what I offer my children.

I have seen more diverse comments on this board in recent months and I welcome it. To add some balance to what has now been said, I welcome comments from everyone, sws, fosterers alike.

I agree that there is disconnect. Thomassmuggit welcomes comments from bms, adopters, adoptees, but excludes other, but there is often huge disconnect between comments from that triangle. It makes for extremely uncomfortable reading for all at times.

I don't think it is healthy to stick to the triangle and i certainly don't think it is healthy to stick to mainly adopters.

Conserveposhforjam sorry if my wording was not clear. All I simply meant was that while I am foster care (in a f2a type case) I am not mummy by name because until birth family are completely ruled out and an adoption plan is made BM is mummy. However, I am loving that child deeply, nurturing them as they grow, and building an attachment that will hopefully strengthen over time with me or transfer to birth family. I can not understand how that is not what you as adoptive parents do with your lo. How is that different? If adoption becomes the plan I become mummy by title although in reality I will have always been mummy. I want to stress I do understand adopters, am very involved at local level in championing and facilitating support groups for both adopters and foster carers so I have a clear understanding of the huge spectrum of difficulties faced by adopters and adoptees.

Thomasmuggit I am sorry your lo's did not have a good experience in Foster care and I recognise that there is also a spectrum of foster carers but overall I do feel that the majority do it because they want to make a difference in these little ones lives and do their absolute best by them. The perspectives that these good ones can offer on these boards are important too though and should not be ruled out. the perspectives from foster carers have helped some for instance in handling introductions etc. However from this thread I have learnt my lesson and will keep my thoughts to myself unless someone specifically asks for advice relating to foster care which does happen from time to time and I feel my perspective may be useful. Sorry if I offend anyone, I never set out to do that.

I must agree with the pink lady and child that comes into my home is treat with love, nurture, support them with birth family regardless of the plan to return home,

I treat all children as I would my birth children and would fight for what is right for them,

And whilst I understand adoptees
Is another level
I do feel that when I am dealing with the children I care for especially ones that have been adopted or children that will stay here long term my opinion and advice at times is as valid as the next person.

I joined this sight as I had a
Little one who was going off to get adopted for advice as I wanted
To get it right

I have also had close relationships with birth family and have a history of family on care so feel this also gives me experience from both sides.

I think that posters who want to keep this an exclusive space should also remember that when the very significant number of adoptions start to go wrong, it is very often specialist SWs and other members of the community who have to pick up the pieces.

Many adopters express their belief that when such problems arise, they are to do with early trauma and this is blamed on other people, but ime and that of other people with decades of experience, it is significantly to do with parenting.

I believe that a part of that is understanding the complicated dynamic with the birth family.

Many problems faced by adoptees such as behavioural problems, possibly caused by birth parents' abuse of drugs, or other, are capable of being treated - more is known about the brain and how it can be rewired etc.

Research indicates that what is less well understood are the issues relating to birth families. Much is spoken about risk and keeping an eye on social media but I think these are largely red herrings. I think to get it right parents need to open minded, and to engage with all people involved in adoption directly or indirectly including those who may have a different view point such as birth family, adoptees, sws, fosterers.

pinklady and everyone else, for this reason, please don't feel you should stop posting.

You haven't offended me at all pinklady I was just pointing out that what fcs do and what adopters do is actually very different emotionally even if it may look the same on the surface.

until birth family are completely ruled out and an adoption plan is made BM is mummy. However, I am loving that child deeply, nurturing them as they grow, and building an attachment that will hopefully strengthen over time with me or transfer to birth family. I can not understand how that is not what you as adoptive parents do with your lo. How is that different?

That sounds just like what I did with my dd for the first year or so. While I was faking it. And I get that in a f2a situation you need to keep an emotional detachment to protect yourself. But it does sound detached compared to the actual business of knowing that you are that child's mother forever and that you have an irreplaceable bond which could never transfer to anyone else and that if some twat IRL or on AIBU suggested that someone else might be that person's mother you might need to know that others get why that's fucking stupid.

So no, I don't think you get it. Which is fine, you don't have to, but in posting here it's helpful if you don't equate what you do with what I do.