Adoption or IVF with donor sperm?

[strawberrydreamcake]

I am 37 soon and I'm single.

I really would love a child and feel I have a lot to offer to 'motherhood' - am a reception/year 1 teacher and deputy head of an infant school so I love children, as you'd hope!

I always thought I'd meet Mr Right and have the conventional marriage, children and so on. It isn't looking likely so I need to think outside the box as it were.

The things I'm wondering are:

1. Do your finances/ debt impinge on your suitability? I haven't got a very good credit rating - perversely this is because i have no credit history to speak of! But it has sometimes been a problem.

1. I'm single. I know they would say this isn't an issue - but would it be really? I don't have any family who could help.

1. I would want to if possible choose the name of the child myself.

1. I would prefer to adopt a girl, or two girls.

1. I wouldn't want any contact with the birth parents at all to speak of.

I hope I haven't offended anyone but the above are the reasons I might be turned away - and if that's the case, I obviously need to think about other ways of becoming a mum. I want to make sure I'm as suited to the process as the process is to me and I definitely don't want to be given funny looks or similar.

Please remember I am new to this so won't know the things you all know.

Maryz of course I'm naive. Why would I be an expert? That is why I have asked about it on here.

It's really off putting to be told you're naive - I feel very stupid now and as if I've done something wrong or broken a rule I didn't know existed. As I said in my first post, this is all new to me.

IsThisOne - I can see that and it wouldn't be so much about stamping my own identity on a child as moving forward positively together. But I take your point.

I'm best leaving this thread I think so please don't think I am being rude but I really do feel like a big clumsy idiot!

Thanks Maryz we cross posted.

I guess it just get very tiresome being on here and answering the same old questions. But I am sure you weren't born knowing the answers, any more than I am. I'm trying to work out what's best for me and for any future children.

Perhaps you're right and perhaps I should just have fertility treatment, I don't know! I DO know I'm no stranger to loss or heartache and maybe, just maybe I could relate to a child like that.

But maybe not

Haha always happens

Before I go further, to be clear I'm not anti name changing and I did change my sons first name (he was just turned 2) slowly and carefully because of a security issue which meant it was much safer to change. It was a difficult decision at his age, but as it turns out the right one.

Aged 9, he chose to change his middle names. Likewise my DD1 chose to change her middle names when she was legally adopted (she was 11 when she decided on new names). Crucially though, as older children, it was their choice. They asked me not the other way around, and I supported their choices.

As taken said, moving to a new home is a very difficult time for kids. It's confusing, unsettling, challenging and can be a real time of grief as they lose their foster carer/s. It can be exciting too, but it is a massive massive change. They will also not feel secure with you for months. So approaching a 3/4/5 year old year old about whether they would like a new name is not something I think I would do unless there was a serious security issue. I would be worried that they would feel pressured to do what you want because they want to please you when secretly they don't want to. On the other hand if I was asked by my child, that would be a different matter.

As they grow up and develop their own identity further they can choose to change if they want of course.

I would also say that I disagree that adoption is a 'new life'. Perhaps a new chapter in their life. But still, you cannot wipe the slate clean. Life just continues with a new mum

Ps. There's no such thing as a stupid question! (Modern) adoption is so totally outside most people's experience and it's normal to have a lot of questions. So ask away

Thanks maryz - that's a really honest post that has definitely given me food for thought.

I must second all the brilliant posts here.

The accommodation thing (one bed flat) is something to seriously consider. You can ask your local social services/voluntary agency and see what they say. My experience at the moment from friends is that they are going through the process in 6 months (to approval - we took 12 to get to approval but I think it is now 6) and the matching bit is as long as a piece of strong! But for us it was 8 months and it seems that others are saying they are being matched quicker. So I guess what I am saying is post approval you may find things move quite quickly (if you are approved, of course).

I think Lilka makes a very valid point when she says I could not agree more with your comments. Especially You are still young in adoption terms - many many people who come to adoption do so in their 40's. However in terms of conception, you aren't young and your window to explore having a birth child is going to close quicker than your window for exploring adoption is going to.*

And I think Mary makes a very valid point when she says About the finances/flat etc, if you get pregnant these issues will be your business and no-one else's. You can decide when to move, and how much maternity leave you will take (and how you will fund it). If you adopt, you will have to prove you can move (and move before matching, and possibly before approval) and probably have to take much more time off work (and prove you can finance that time off).

I'm not wanting to put you off adoption, but I think sometimes it's a case of going through all the cons as well as the pros and making a positive choice and part of that choice is to decide not to go for the fertility route. Sometimes that choice is made for people because treatment fails. But in those cases at least one can look back and say that they tried and they know it was not going to work for them. Some people will never consider fertility treatment and that's fine, of course, but as you are considering it i think you need to completely rule that out before seriously considering adoption. And I agree that no question is silly - all questions are welcome.

Just a couple of my thoughts for you, i have never tried to adopt but i do have contact with foster carers/looked after children in my job, kids that have been through awful experiences

1. most children that are available for adoption are not there because their mums willingly gave them up but because they have been removed. Most have come from neglectful, abusive homes. Some may have experienced sustained sexual abuse from a parent or terrible physical abuse. By the time they are adopted they may have experienced multiple placements and have real issues with bonding, trust and all sorts of other issues. Older children may have behavioural problems, MH issues etc
2. with the above in mind any adoptive child will take lots and lots of loving care which may well not be conducive with full time teaching work - our LA does not allow foster carers to work more than a few part time hours. Obviously as a single parent you would have to show how you would physically manage two very demanding children hand in hand with your job. Be prepared to put your career on hold if you are serious about adopting.

strawberrydreamcake can I just give you some background to my previous post, please?

We had a daughter with IUI (me aged 39) and wanted a second child and started trying when dd was 9 months old. We had lots of treatment with IUI and IVF and used donor eggs for IVF with both fresh (2) and frozen (1) cycles. But were not able to have a second 'biological' child. I had wanted to adopt since my twenties but the drive to have another bio child (no offence at my language I hope!) was incredibly strong and led us to spend a lot of money trying to achieve this!

After a lot of money and time (six and a half years) we went down the adoption route and within 20 months we had our second child, a gorgeous (I am not biased people are always telling me how handsome ds is!) little boy aged 3, almost 4. I do not regret anything , even spending all that money, as I think I needed to go through this process. I have fertility issues, so my experiences are not to discourage you.

I am sharing this because I just wanted to emphasise a few points, and you can ignore or whatever because it is just my experience....

The desire to have a biological child can be very strong, I had a crap experience of pregnancy and birth (I thought I was going to lose DD due to bleeding and had a C-section and infection) and so it was not this which I wanted to experience again or a genetic link (since I was going for donor eggs). However, a 'biological' pull can be very strong even though the child would not have been genetically linked to me. I guess I am just saying make sure you have ruled this out if you go for adoption.

Your points:

1. Money - it's just a case of being able to support the child/ren and also usually taking one year off as adoption leave.

1. Single - lots of other single adopters on here, if you want to speak to them generally you could start a thread about singles adopting, I would imagine support would be a big issue so you need friends (not necessarily) family who can be there for you and your child/ren. All adopters need support but a single adopter probably needs it even more - and of course you can cultivate these contacts and friends who have children will probably end up being your best support as they have been to me, not necessarily people who you have known a long time.

1. Name - I felt like you that I wanted to change my child's name before we met. I even started at least one thread on mumsnet about it! However, once we got the details of our soon to be son and he had a name and we talked about him a lot (dh and I, our social worker and then our child's social worker and then our child's foster 'mum' and so by the time we actually got to matching he was very much 'Cassius' (not his real name!) to us. Even if we would not have chosen the name ourselves or we did not necessarily like the meaning etc. I also felt that for some children a new name might be helpful but once he was a real boy with a real name it was not really something I worried about too much. Having said this, I do still worry about the future and the issues around identity on line etc but once he arrived I could not have added to the stresses by trying to chane his name unless there was a very real reason to do so.

1. Girl/s - I really wanted a girl (which had I had a bio child would not have been in my control) and yet we managed to be relatively open with social workers and despite requesting a preference for a girl we were matched with a boy which was GREAT. He is the right one for us and for our family. So I really would recommend being as open as you feel you can be and remember you can change your 'preferences' as you go along, although if you are approved exclusively to adopt a girl/s you may need to go to approval again if you wish to adopt a boy - someone more knowledgeable can confirm that! (Lilka?)

1. Contact with the birth parents - We have letter box in place (although not started yet), my understanding is that it will really help our son in the future that his birth family know he is alive and well and something about what he is up to and that if they keep their part of sending information our son will know about them. This may help him not to create a fantasy of them but to know the facts of their ongoing lives and if he ever does want to contact them again for himself when older he will have a realistic knowledge about their lives. My views on this have really changed 100% as I would have felt I did not want any contact before we went through the adoption process. Also we hope to meet the birth parents once our adoption is all finalised. Again this is a 100% different to my thoughts a couple of years ago.

I hope these reflections help in some way.

All best wishes to you.

Worry not, I have been suitably put off! I do wonder how single adopters do manage, given most of us obviously have to work full time, but it isn't for me to worry about I suppose.

Perhaps that comment made my hackles rise a bit because I am not some sort of single minded career woman, I am a normal person who goes to work and am lucky as I happen to enjoy my job.

I do feel the biological pull isn't as strong as it was maybe three years ago when I was sure I wanted my own baby. Now I've all but given up on that idea, at least 50% of the child wouldn't be mine biologically and wouldn't be related to me. That knowledge coupled with friends' babies growing and being aged mostly between 3 and 6 has meant I don't feel as strongly about this as I once did - I'd go as far as to say it's no longer important.

What is important, clearly, is the child in question. I can offer a child - one biologically related to me or not - a secure, happy, safe home where they are the centre of my world, financial security (my job is well paid and my outgoings minimal due to having no mortgage presently) commitment, love - I know I'd be devoted to that child and would do anything in my power to keep them happy.

It does seem though in many ways that the easier option is certainly to jump on a plane and go to Scandinavia, whereby I can be artificially inseminated with Viking sperm and return to the uk, hopefully pregnant and avoid all these issues. But I feel uneasy about this for reasons I am not sure I can explain. I would do it - I'd probably do anything for a child! - but something about it makes me feel uneasy.

strawberrydreamcake I think you are totally right to think this all through and I had to wrest a lot with the idea of using donor eggs, was not keen at first.

You can get donor sperm in the UK so it doesn't need to be done in a foreign country.

Any comments about work etc may well be because there is a level of uncertainty with adoption which you do not have with birth kids. All kids are only about 50% your DNA but whether the other person is a partner or a donor there is hopefully not a whole raft of problems like mental health issues/learning difficulties etc (not saying there won't be anything but donors are screened for all that and when you have a baby with a partner you know the issues, if any, in the family.

My birth dd went to child care part time when she was 8 months but our son (almost 4) is only going to go to preschool two mornings a week. It's a case of uncertainties about how they will cope with that.

The need to work is very real, I understand that and I think what I said before about starting a thread asking specifically of single adopters how they have managed work etc would be helpful for you, even if you do not go ahead at this time you could find out more.

If you want to talk more feel free to pm me, please be encouraged by these discussions if you feel you are making some decisions of use to you, don;t let your 'hackles rise' as no one (I feel sure) has any desire to make that so, we all just want to share our experiences and thoughts, ultimately you will make decisions and work etc will be one of them but it would be wrong to give the impression one can automatically work full time with a young child who joined your family by adoption; some people may well do it very successfully but I can see there may be big problems for kids who have had multiple 'families' and 'mummies' going daily to a place where they are cared for by someone who is not their mummy.

wrestle not wrest!

Sorry that is a massive sentence! I meant....

If you want to talk more feel free to pm me.

Please be encouraged by these discussions if you feel you are making some decisions of use to you.

Please don't let your 'hackles rise' as no one (I feel sure) has any desire to make that so. We all just want to share our experiences and thoughts.

Ultimately, you will make decisions and work etc will be one of them. IMHO it would be wrong to give the impression one can automatically work full time with a young child who joined the family by adoption. Some people may well do it very successfully. However, I can see there may be big problems for kids who have had multiple 'families' and 'mummies' going daily to a place where they are cared for by someone who is not their mummy (once you adopt you are their mummy and they need lots of time with you, not just in the first year so it really depends how demanding your job is).

There is nothing at all wrong with enjoying your career, it is brilliant to do so. Whether you enjoy it or not is not the issues, the issue is who looks after your child. I don't know how single adopters manage, but I know there are several on here and I am sure they have things to share if you can speak to them.

All the best, strawberrydreamcake.

Could you get a fertility MOT to see where you stand on that front?

strawberrydreamcake although I was wary, I had two fresh cycles of IVF with donor eggs and ended up with a frozen cycle too. My fears were not founded and it was fine, although in my case unsuccessful.

I think the donor route is a very fine and valid one, for what it is worth.

Thanks.

I know donor sperm can be accessed in the UK but it is a far more straightforward not to mention cheaper procedure abroad.

If I was to adopt it would be - I don't know, an active choice I suppose. I know I want a child so it's a question of which method is best. It could be I am totally unsuitable for adoption - I do work full time (I was objecting to the career taking a back step post as if I was a city girl complete with heels and Starbucks cup when in fact I am an infant school teacher!) I don't have any family to help and my home is at present unsuitable.

Donor sperm is undoubtedly easier but is it right? Right for me that is. And I don't know!

If you are considering going down the donor route, you could contact the Donor Conception Network who run regular workshops for single women considering using donor sperm which would give you the chance to consider all the issues.

I'm not sure that I am (considering it, that is :)) but we'll see.

I'm a single adopter and also had this dilemma. In the end I decided I wasn't comfortable with donor sperm and went down the adoption route. DD came home at 11 months and is hard work but utterly fabulous! I went back to work part time and don't think either of us could manage full time; money is tight but we manage (and I spend a lot less as my social life has been seriously curtailed!)

In terms of the flat, I have friends who are currently going through the approval process. They hope to adopt a sibling group and so are having to sell their 2 bed house and move during the approval process. I think an agency might take you on if they know you're planning to move in the very near future, but I don't think they'd take you to panel until you had moved.

Good luck whatever you decide

Single adopter here too. Pretty much done everything you've mentioned.

Tried getting pregnant the "usual" way
Imported known donor sperm (at great and pointless expense) becuase UK was anonymous at the time
Tried IUI
Tried IVF
Tried adoption (tick successful)
Had a near-full time career as a single parent
Gave up full time career as it was incompatible with adoptive paretning at that point
Moved house in order to adopt (prior to adoption as it happens)

So you could pretty much ask me any question and I'd have an answer (my answer at least!)

I do wonder how single adopters do manage, given most of us obviously have to work full time, but it isn't for me to worry about I suppose.

We manage by sometimes having to make quite drastic decisions and change our lives in ways we really hadn't originally intended to.

I don;t know one single adopter (and I know many) who isn;t in some way living a very different life to one they'd envisaged and often its down to lack of a partner to share the financial load.

Cutting back on working hours, taking sideways or even backwards moves professionally, changing to careers that you aren't passionate about because they aren't child friendly, downsizing property and living in areas you wouldn;t chose to in other circumstances.

Sometimes two parent families have to make these choices too but IME its way more common in single adopters and social services know this so they will be more interested in your support network because they know just how vital it can be.

Having said that I know single adopters who have virtually no family support who have developed new support groups since having their child and I don;t know anyone who wouldn't gladly make the same sacrifices again to ensure their child had the best available chance at living up to their potential.

Parenting as a totally lone parent is hard, adoptive parenting as a totally lone parent is hard x10.

But more joy that you can probably imagine.