15,000 Kids and Counting - Episode 2

[Lilka]

Tonight at 9.00 on Channel 4

The Search
This episode follows the search for adoptive parents for a two-year-old boy and a three and seven-year-old brother and sister

With the added challenges of having slightly older children, siblings and a child with possible health issues to place, the task for social workers Annette and Jackie is a massive one

With the future of these children in their hands and recently set government targets to meet, they struggle not to become emotionally involved as they strive to find adopters before time runs out

Online forums are wonderful,they're also rambunctious and polarised
One needs to be able to tolerate that,and challenge the post not the poster

Merry - yes.

To be fair, MyFeet, Nana didn't say that, she said that she thought prospective adopters saw adopted babies as next best to birth children. Which I thought was unfair to prospective adopters, but it's not the same thing as believing it yourself

And I hope it was always obvious that I was challenging the post language, not the poster. And I will challenge certain language, no matter who says it or when.

But moving on.

I'm glad to see Lauren and Liam will on next week's program. I'm quite excited to see them moving in! Big thing though, to agree to being filmed at that time in your life

I'm very interested in next week's episode as Lauren and Liam are very similar in age to our FC. Unfortunately, the adoption planned for May fell through today . I think I'm hoping that a positive outcome for L & L will raise our spirits!

I'm sorry to hear that Sorrel

I knew already how hard it is to find families for older children, but it was still very difficult to see it on screen, and then see Lauren so hopeful

sorrel

I just got to thinking about the children I turned down before I adopted my daughters. Don't think about it often and I know I made the right decisions at the time

But I hope things turned out well for them. It's hard to know that for some of them, things probably haven't turned out well

I hope it helped people consider older adoptees. My dd has a big bundle of muddles to work through and will be 18 before she's been in our family as long as she was in care but, despite all her troubles, she has really opted in to our family. She chose us as much as we chose her.

If people have concerns about adopting an older child I think this would be a good place to air them and ask questions so some of us can share our experiences as much as a public forum allows.

karbea, when we were ringing round prospective agencies we were treated very rudely by one, who basically slagged me off for daring to presume I could parent a mixed heritage child (this was the NCH Black Families Project, which presumably deals with quite a lot of interracial couples, which is what we are). I was also rejected by my home LA who don't place in borough. And by another agency because we weren't white enough - and they only had white children on their books. However, the last did give me loads of really useful advice, especially that I needed to understand adoption as a marketplace. Agencies know, pretty much, the children they have coming up and recruit against that. They don't want to waste money approving adopters who they won't use. But that doesn't mean there won't be an agency who won't want you.

Now, I was lucky enough to be in London, which has a huge choice of agencies. In the end I went with the one where the ethnic demographic mirrored us, where the social workers were keen on us and the staff were friendly and efficient. And they were fantastic. (STill couldn't find us a match, though - in the end we found our dd via the National Adoption Register.)

So you basically need to ring every agency within an hour's travel of your home. And see if talking to them helps you and your dh to move forward in deciding what you want to do.

I completely recognise what you're saying about the offputting information evening. I remember ours with a bit of a shudder: we got eaten alive by the social workers, who were very very keen to have us (or rather my Caribbean dp!) but as we walked out we passed a white woman who was in tears, saying, "I just want a child to love and care for, and you're telling me I can't because I'm white". I really felt for her, but since then the requirement for ethnic matching has been relaxed and in addition there are many more children needing adoption, I expect this immediate ruling out of white people shouldn't be happening any more. (Besides which: South Bucks?? Surely most of the children there are white?)

I don't know the answer to this issue about frightening adopters off by giving them the worst case scenario. I kind of can't make sense of it in my own head. On the one hand, people do need to know that this isn't just like having a birth child, that love is not always enough, and that pretty much all adopted children will have extra issues and challenges. ON the other hand, it's simply not true that most adopters are enduring a living hell. My daughter is certainly challenging and has extra issues, and some days I feel down about that, but she's also lovely and loving and we have a great family life. I truly don't know what would be an accurate way of conveying the range and complexity of experience on this, though.

I agree with others who have said that it is an advantage to have a SAHP going into adoption. I'm really surprised that you were told it should be 50:50 - when we went to matching panel, they were quite perturbed that we were both going to be around (me on adoption leave, dp working from home) and questioned who would be the primary carer - they worried that the child shouldn't have to attach to two people at the same time, easier to have one primary attachment. I do wonder if they might have been concerned that adoption was basically your project, and wanted to ensure your dh was 50:50 involved for the assessment process and equally emotionally committed? Rather than implying that he should be doing childcare 50:50?

Erk, that was a long post, even by my standards. Apologies.

Thanks all. Sitting here on my own this eve as DH is away. The kids are in bed and I just want to scream! The panel date etc. was only booked last week (after months of meetings, planning, assessments). But if it's not right, it's not right.

Lauren was absolutely lovely, I'm keeping everything crossed for her and her brother.

I want to thank NanaNina for helping me to find out what to avoid saying.

I was totally ignorant to "own children" being such a problem and an upsetting word for prospective adopters. I knew that any adopted child is completely their own children, and are not in any way second best. When I attended a meeting many years ago, to get information about adoption, I did not think of any 'potential' child as being my own at that point, but was considering the possibility that I could adopt a child to become my own. But I attended the meeting, at that time following a time of infertility and would have been exactly as NanaNina said that: I wanted a younger children because I felt that it was the next best thing to having another birth child (is this terminology ok?). I don't think I am alone in this? Because of living in a different country, I was told I cannot adopt due to my age, and took a long time of working out my feelings regarding not having another child of my own (by this I mean adopted).

I always thought that the legal finalisation of the adoption was the point at which parents could say with great happiness that the child/children are/were finally theirs completely and fully. So I apologise for my mistaken belief. Can people please explain to me at what point your children became yours 100%? Was it from the point at which you were given the initial information on the potential match or after this, when you met them? or some other point like when they finally move into your house? Sorry I just don't want to upset anyone at any point if the time comes for me to hand over a child from fostering to adoption. It will be hard enough emotionally for me to do, without making any big mistakes of referring to permanency too late, and upsetting/offending the adoptive parents.

From this TV program, I would assume that once a match is made and the children being prepared to move would be the point, definitely once I would be talking to the child referring to their new forever family, but I want to check with people here who have experienced it for themselves, if you don't mind? Thank you.

An adopted child becomes 100% yours in the legal sense, when the final adoption order is granted.
However, in my heart, I considered my daughter mine the day she was placed into my arms. And actually before that if I'm honest.
Which is probably why I winced at the 'own children' reference.

Aside from the legal definition, I think what we're talking about is a subjective definition that needs to be respected by others, willitbe. With my adopted child, I felt a strong sense as soon as she moved in that she was now my responsibility, that our futures were bound together and she was in my tribe. Same as I felt with my birth child from the point of her birth. With both, it took several months to feel that full blossoming of love. But the AO really wasn't the point - I became a mum (both times) at the point at which I assumed responsibility.

HappySunflower - thank you that really helps.

Same for me willitbe, it was the day we walked out of the baby home with dd. Legally she was ours 12 days before then but we weren't allowed to take her then. She became my own the day we left the baby home.

I viewed my children as my own very soon after they came home

Did I love them at that point? No. BUT, I felt the responsibility, and soon after, a protective feeling over them, and I realy felt absolutely that they were my children and my responsibility

In some ways the finalisation was very significant. But not in terms of my emotions towards my children

Devora - x-post, I hope you don't mind me clarifying, but for you it was when your child moved into your home, rather than on first meeting/panel day? Because it is a subjective definition, it is not possible to generalise for everyone I think? But from what I am reading, it is definitely way before the legal bit, and for some people it is even before first meeting.

I think my experience of being a fostercarer is making it hard for me to really grasp a full understanding of the concept. For children come to be with me, and they are my responsibility on a day to day basis, and I grow to love them, and care deeply about their futures, but they can never be my own children. It is what is stopping me currently taking up the offer of taking a baby straight from hospital into long-term foster care. It is hard because you become attached to these children, but I am not sure I could cope if I had a newborn baby, supposedly coming to be with me longterm, only for them to be taken away at some point years later, for whatever reason (more likely to happen where I live, than in England I think). Earlier on in this thread there was discussion about the difference between Adoption and LTFC, I think the biggest difference is that they never become your own children, yet you live on a day to day basis as if they were. It is hard. I can only guess at how hard it is for the longterm fosterchild themselves, the insecurity of it all.

Yes, when she moved in willitbe. But she was under 1 and I'd only met her 7 days before. She didn't feel mine when she was in her fc's home, but she did as soon as I had responsibility for her.

Willitbe yes preparation for the child is important, we have experienced this many , many times. Important too get all in process as soon as possible some LA's and agency's are a bit slow, find we have too prompt them frequently, some don't have a clue sadly, We like direct contact with parents, so they can send or pass on Information, Photo's, (A4 for younger children can stick them on the wall in their room as a poster say night, night etc. personal too them) Video's , children's app book ( tommy do a good one can include photo's , video's lots of things in the book plays music too, we leave them around accessible for child too see and play with in their own time., We do not go over the top talks and discussions have too be at child's pace, gradual , But has worked well for all our children over the years, Very warming when a child meets parents for the 1st time and recognises them as Mum and Dad, some even greet them as Mummy and Daddy. We also give a complete diary
for parents too read and photo copy from the 1st day of child's FCare placement with us, photo's, memory, box, and large photo PowerPoint
of Life Story. We try too do this on 1st day of introduction's find helps
fill in a few gaps and parents can pick up some useful past fun things,
likes , and dislikes not discussed during intro's, also can relax and read
at their leisure. Intro's are always exhausting for parents. nice too have something too relax and relate too during process.

Karbea I am sorry the experience at the local adoption agency was not good. We were not painted such a grim picture but they do paint it quite grim to see if you will stay in it! That is my belief anyway! You said plus he would need to get some child experience (neither of us have any), so he'd need to find a scout group or something. Did your DH find the idea of this a problem? I don’t think it is unreasonable for social services to expect adopters to be who are able to be around children and have had experience of children. I know it can be hard when you work fulltime. The most innovative thing I heard was a woman who went into the school close to where she worked for a lunchtime (not sure how often, maybe once a week) and offered to run a gardening club with the kids. I thought that was a great idea as it was close to work and so she could go it in a lunch break (kids get quite short lunch breaks so if the school is close enough it can fit into a working day).

You said I know you don't really see what those children are like or what they've gone through. That's not strictly true, you do not meet them but you do read a long report on their life and even the lives of their birth parents, you see a photo, sometimes a video and you meet the foster carers. You can also sometimes meet the child at an activity day.

I think if life really were as bad as the local council described for you then pretty much hardly anyone would adopt! I think the bleak picture is for a purpose, there are hurdles and there will be problems etc and maybe they do not always know which kids will be the hardest so they want to prepare all. But it would be mad to say it is 50/50 when one parent works full time and the other is stay at home mum!

I am sorry you were so put off, the fact you are reading here suggests you are still hankering for it. One option, and this is total idea so please feel free to ignore it, is that you could foster. That way it is not a permanent commitment. It really depends how much each of you feels drawn to parenting this way.

Karbea I can't see how social services could 'chase' people who have had unsuccessful IVF as that is all private. We were told when we first had problems having a second baby that we should adopt (by the fertility specialist). I think everyone knows that there are children out there who are looking for families, at least these documentaries are getting the word out!

I think part of the unofficial ‘ test’ of being an adopter is can you navigate the minefield of adoption (IMHO) so they really don’t want to make it too easy for people. BUT as you go along it gets easier and when you reach the end of the road it is a very different picture. Can I just ask others who are adopters or have been through training/prep, is that your opinion too?

Karbea as others have said most children in the care system in this country are white. There are a number of children of Black or Asian or mixed heritage and fewer Black or Asian or mixed heritage adopters so they are always keen to find adopters who are non-white but there are a lot of white children. If you look on the Be my parent website you will see most are white. (I am not making any value statement at all here just saying that lots of white children are looking for families).

It also depends what you mean by a disability, not all children in the looked after system will have a physical disability but many will have had difficult experiences, neglect, exposure to drug or alcohol in vetro etc which may have affected them adversely. I now know a few children (who were adopted), not one of them has what I would call a 'disability' (to my knowledge).