15,000 Kids and Counting - Episode 2

[Lilka]

Tonight at 9.00 on Channel 4

The Search
This episode follows the search for adoptive parents for a two-year-old boy and a three and seven-year-old brother and sister

With the added challenges of having slightly older children, siblings and a child with possible health issues to place, the task for social workers Annette and Jackie is a massive one

With the future of these children in their hands and recently set government targets to meet, they struggle not to become emotionally involved as they strive to find adopters before time runs out

NanaNina I agree we do not want to target set people but I wonder if older people have maybe not thought of adopting and might think they were not wanted/not needed as years ago age limits were stricter. So perhaps less targeting and more educating. All marketing has a sort of target in that it is aimed at people who fit the criteria.

Karbea , you said "My dh as we were leaving said, I've a 1st from uni, I earn £x, we live in a gorgeous house etc, but I'm not good enough to adopt."

IMHO that’s totally the wrong thing to take from the open day. I think it would be more realistic to say, social services don't care if you have a first at degree level(and it could go against you If they worried you would expect a child who would also be able to get a first – not saying you would, so you would need to reassure social services that you would not have such high expectations for your little one in education. Not because they might not be able to achieve that, I am sure some do, but because it may be less likely given the shakier start and the limitations that some children will have through no fault of their own. So if they got a first that would be great but they may be more likely to turn their hand to something different and whatever they do you need to be comfortable that they are falling their own path. It’s pretty much the same with birth ids but generally birth kids may well have inherited your brains (or in my case my dyslexia!).

Social services don’t care if you are rich (although you must have enough money to support a family), and you do not need a gorgeous house. You need to want to parent a child, love them and care for them, do all you can for them as any parent would, and I would add you need to fight for the right to adopt because later down the line you may well be fighting to get services for them one way of the other. My birth DD has dyslexia and it has been a struggle to get her help. fighting is (IMHO) to some extent part of parenting a child who has more needs, whether they have joined the family by birth, adoption, fostering or other.

Just so you know, Karbea, it is my desire to help you and not badger you! (Sorry ) I rang social services once a year for three years and was turned down each time (as my birth child was too young). They really do not make it easy for anyone but it doesn't mean it is not worth pursuing IMHO!

italian - in answer to your question earlier, we haven't felt that the LA we chose have tried to put us off or test our commitment. We did go to a couple of info evenings when we started out though, and I remember coming out if the first one totally deflated - they had emphasised 'no children under 3' 'they'll all have terrible problems' and had a weary, eye-rolly attitude to the assembled bright-eyed newbies. When we went to the info evening of the LA we eventually applied through the difference was amazing. An open, friendly attitude. Talked us through the process honestly but emphasising how they supported adoptees/adopters/bps etc to ensure the best outcomes for children. We went for a drink after and couldn't believe how differently we felt. We applied and so far have nothing but good things to say (we're halfway through stage 2). Our SW has guided us through any weaknesses we thought we had, rather than make it difficult for us. So karbea do persevere, different LA/VAs have very different approaches.

CloserThanYesterday thanks, I think our LA when we first approached them were a bit negative and again when we came back two years ago but as the process has gone on t has felt better.

We are starting introductions on Monday, and "Just go" seems to be the general advice. As it has been explained to us, once the day of the final transfer arrives, the children will be thoroughly ready to move (a fortnight of introductions being a pretty long time in their world), and spinning out the final visit to FCs' home just makes everyone start crying and the children pick up on that and get distressed too.

The way I see it is that this isn't the absolute end. Assuming the children settle in well, there's no reason not to remain in contact with the FCs and even occasionally meet up with them. I'm told that this can be a good thing for the children, so they understand that the FCs didn't abandon them and still exist. YMMV of course.

Lilka: "It was wonderful to hear about the difference foster carers do make in children's lives every day."

What you said. The FCs for our children have basically turned their (the children's! ) lives around, to the extent that the eldest (6), who only a a year ago was the one that her classmates' parents complained about and kept their children away from, is now described by all the staff at her school as a different girl, sociable, enthusiastic and studious in class.

I am somewhat ashamed to admit that, had I met the FCs in other circumstances, I might have prematurely formed an unflattering opinion of them based on nothing but my own preconceptions. As it is, the more I hear, the more I am in awe of what they have achieved. (And they are lovely people to boot.) Yet another learning moment for me on the road to adoption!

I have just watched this episode and read part of the thread before realising I was reading about parts I hadn't watched yet so stopped. I knew that the older children were getting parents from this thread but when Tommy was moved I could barely breathe. I cried.

I was fostered numerous times. I was meant to be adopted but when my mother saw that they really wanted me she said no. I was moved every time I was happy with foster carers as she didn't like that. Where I was unhappy she didn't bother with me.

I get so frustrated as there often comes announcements and recommendations of things that need to be changed, implemented or improved when the same mistakes were being made 30+ years ago when I was in care. How can it not have already been learnt? Probably because a lot of social workers, etc have degrees and qualifications but no actual experience of being a child in care and any understanding of what a child feels, needs, fears and wants.

It just breaks my heart as it seems all wrong. All about targets and paperwork and not about feelings, well being, future happiness and security. IMO and IME.

I'm glad I popped back on the thread - thank you to everyone who has supported me, and for the PMs that I will respond to - but thank you - you know who you are. I don't usually get upset by MN but I was upset that I had caused offence to so many on you adopters. For many years I championed the rights of foster carers and adopters and this was acknowledged at my leaving do in 2004. I still remember my line manager saying in her speech "woe betide anyone beneath her or above her who she perceived as riding rough-shod over a foster carer or adopter...." and the entire room burst into spontaneous applause and I shed tears. I loved my job and retired at 60 because I wanted to spend more time with my grandchildren. I did however work independently for 5 years after my retirement, doing assessments for foster carers and adopters for a neighbouring authority, and some training together with a colleague on attachment.

I thought a lot last night about things and I am pretty sure I know why I used those particular words but I don't think it would be wise to say anything more.

Thank you Lilka for your honesty and generous spirit. I'm so glad the thread has moved on and I've particularly enjoyed Devora's posts (always the voice of reason) and Italiangreyhound - you talk such sense - have you been matched yet, or has a child been placed) I am going to be a tad paranoid about my use of language now but I will have to take a chance on that one.

Willitbe thank you for your support. I think the question you ask about when does the child feel like your own is "it all depends" as has been demonstrated by posters on the thread. I think all of the posters on the thread have positive experiences of adoption once the child is placed, even though it may have taken a while for them to really feel the child was their own. I have however known cases where the prospective adopters have pulled out during the introductory period, and worse still when the child has been placed. Sometimes one of the couple has bonded with the child and not the other and I've seen marriages break down and people suffer mental health problems due to adoption related issues. I'm really not trying to put people off so I won't elaborate any more.

Typically we often found that adopters only told us about their fears when the child/ren were initially placed with them, once that stage had passed and they were feeling that the child was their own......even though we did always say to prospective adopters that there would almost always be a period of adjustment, but the fear was we would remove the child if they told us of their doubts and uncertainties in those early weeks and sometimes months.

The other issue I wanted to raise was the working relationship between the child's social worker and the fostering/adoption social worker, and the team managers involved. It is the child's social worker who has the "right" to decide on a particular placement for a child, and if there is mutual trust and respect between the social workers then there is usually a good outcome. However that isn't always the case, and then the team managers become involved and sometimes this can resolve matters but not always - I think it was often the young inexperienced social workers for the child who would have unrealistic expectations of prospective adopters, and expect them to be perfect, and this I found particularly frustrating.

I can see that there is a great deal of difference in the way LAs respond to applicants about adoption, or indeed individual social workers. Our system was to advertise initially and when people responded (1st acceptors) we sent out an information pack on adoption with a reply slip to return if they were still interested and approx. 50% would return the slip (2nd acceptors) and then we would do a home visit and invite people to the prep course (unless they were entirely unsuitable) and of there would be a small drop out rate at this stage, with approx. 25% of first acceptors carrying on to approval. It was only towards the end of my career that Information evenings began to become the norm.

Oh just wanted to say I watched the last part of the 2nd episode last night and had a very good feeling about Tommy's parents but felt sorry for the foster carers and their daughter as Tommy was like her little brother as he had been placed when a few days old I think.

I got a bit mixed up at the end (it was very late...) as Lauren & Liam's social worker seemed to be saying she had found foster carers and then it turned out she had found adopters. I have a hearing problem and so don't always catch everything that is said - I was a bit puzzled as to why the sw was telling the children about the adopters before they had even met the children. Is this what happened or did I miss something? Then of course I realised that the programme wasn't live and so I'm sure next week will deal with L and L being placed with adopters.

The sw seemed genuine enough but I'm really not sure about all this talking to a 7 year old about a hypothetical family - I never really liked it when I was a sw myself - though it was standard procedure to ask children "what sort of family they wanted" - children are concrete thinkers and I don't think they can or should be expected to cope with such an abstract concept. If L & Ls sw was going to draw something to try to explain to Lauren, then she could have used coloured paper and felt tip pens, rather than a biro and a lined pad!

Just seen your post itsfab - you are so right that neither social workers, foster carers and adopters will probably never had the first hand experience of being a child in care. Were you moved between your own mother and foster carers or between different carers. I say this because sometimes parents would want their child back, only to return them to foster care at some later stage, and I've known cases in the past when this was allowed to happen.

I honestly don't think a child would be moved between foster carers these days because the mother didn't like the child being settled, and it's so sad that was allowed to happen to you. If a child is taken into care with the parents permission then legally the child has to be returned home at the parent's request, but if the LA social workers think this is not right for the child, they can go to court to request an Emergency Protection Order and if this is granted it means the child does not have to be returned to the parent and then legal proceedings begin.

Can I ask how you feel watching the children on the programme (like Lauren and Liam) do you see yourself in the 7 year old Lauren, maybe putting a brave face on things, but inside being scared of what was going to happen to you...........it seems your mom had too much of a say in your care and the social workers were putting her wishes before your own needs, which is so very wrong.

TairHoganFach yes, I ahve heard that and am looking forward to continuing relationship with foster carers on behalf of new son, if all goes well! Good luck with introductions. (lovely name, what does it mean?).

Itsfab I am so sorry you had the expereicens you had. I wonder if you can input into the system in any way, we do (society, I mean) so much need to hear the voices of people who have been in the system. I hope the future will be much kinder to you.

Thanks NanNina for asking, we have been matched and we go to panel soon. He will hopefully move in soon!

NanaNina - I can't remember the exact term but the local authority were my legal guardians yet you wouldn't have known it as they let my mother call the tune. I was very happy in one foster family but they asked that I be moved as they couldn't deal with the problems my mother was causing any longer. I was there for over 3 years and still have very happy memories of being there. My mother decided she wanted me back so I had my stuff packed. She then said, changed my mind so my stuff was taken and I remember putting my doll on the step and ringing the bell of the children's home.

Lots of store was set by the fact I seemed fond of my mother. TBH I was fond of anyone who even said hello to me as I was desperate for someone to care about me.

I was happy at the FH and at the next CH and then had a really horrible placement for years where I was abused. My mother rang me once, I say her maybe 5 times a year and my social worker once a year. My next FH was better but broke down so now I feel really alone in the world most of the time. But I also feel I could be really useful on an advisory panel as I am pretty together when it comes to everyone else.

In response toItaliangreyhound I would like to endorse her comment on older adopters.
Please do not think you are too old, I am 70 and have an eight year old and a 15 year old.
However the door is now locked and have lost key!!
Good luck to all you lovely Mums and go for it!

Itsfab I am afraid I cannot ignore your posts. My track record is not dissimilar to yours. My "DM" dumped me on a railway station when 6 my DF picked me up "sometime" later and then married a toxic woman when I was 11....She loathed me. I escaped as soon as I was 18 and did paediatric nursing then midwifery I survived despite of her. DF was so besotted/scared to see the emotional abuse. No contact with BM since station.
I really hope you survive but it still hurts and is probably why I need to help my wonderful abandoned children.
Good luck XX

God this is cathartic I could go on & on. It has made me far more caring!

That is SO sad abfab - and you were badly let down by social workers who let your mother "call the tune" as you say and then neglected to visit you to make sure you were safe. I imagine you were still quite young when you went to the Children's Home as you still have a doll - oh that image of a little lost girl putting her doll on the step is so sad.

Your mom sounds like the sort of mom who didn't really care about you but she didn't want anyone else to care about you either. I've met a few such moms in my time, and yes they can cause all sorts of problems for foster carers.

Were you able to tell anyone about the abuse you suffered - not sure whether this was a foster home or children's home. I can remember working in children's homes in the 1970s before I did my training for social work, and in both of the homes children were routinely smacked and sent to bed without tea and humiliated in ways that were dreadful. Some of the carers were kind but others weren't and one or two seemed to take pleasure in punishing children for minor things. I was totally powerless to do anything or that's the way it felt as I was the youngest person there, and none of the staff took much notice of me. I am ashamed to say it now, but I was too scared of some of the staff myself to comfort an upset child, but over time I found ways of doing this when the nasty staff members weren't about.

I can definitely say that Children's Homes are no longer like they used to be though they are often chaotic places because it's only teenagers placed in them now as all younger children are fostered.

So sorry you feel alone in the world but you certainly could be helpful on a LA Fostering Panel as it is in the Regulations that the Panel is meant to have a young person who has been in care on the Panel. If you can bear to be amongst social workers again, why don't you contact the LAs near to you to about this. They don't pay much (about £50 for a day I think but that is for reading all the papers and that can be very time consuming and attending the panel for a day. Panels are usually held once or twice a month at most.

itsfab I wish it had been different for you. on your behalf

I was really happy in the children's home. I was a bit of a favourite and was allowed in to the kitchen to help dry up. No other child was allowed. I remember once the fire alarm went off when I was drying a white plate.

I would love to help but would be useless as I would get too emotional. I once applied to be a Samaritan but they turned me down as I told them I had been abused.

I don't think you would be useless abfab unless you had a problem being among social workers, although there would only be a couple on the fostering panel. The panel is to approve (or not) people who have applied to become foster carers, and so there isn't anything that would upset you I don't think. Think about it - there aren't many young people (or indeed older people) who come forward to be part of Fostering Panels and your experience would be invaluable.

Samaritans may not be right because I think you need to be very emotionally tough to cope with the sorts of problems they get. A close friend is a Samaritan and she has told me a bit about some of the distressing situations that come their way.

2old2beaMum oh god how sad is your story - and how amazing that you managed to get yourself together and get the qualifications that you did. Was there anyone in your life who cared about you, because often children can get by, if there is someone, maybe a granny or aunt or friend's parents who can offer them so love and care despite their parents not caring about them.

I'm sure you must be one hell of a wonderful foster carer and I think I saw on one of your posts you were 70 and still caring for young children - I salute you!! I too am 70 and no way could I care for young children on a full time basis. I love my grandchildren but as the old saying goes "it's lovely to see them come and it's lovely to see them go!!" but they are all growing up far too fast for my liking..........

Oh NanaNina in our time who cared about emotional abuse. School just thought you were lazy not sad. Relatives (hers) just believed I was very quiet and just wanted to please! But did try to latch on to friends parents but this was soon curtailed. Thankgoodness for my lovely nursing friends!!
So glad I am not too old to be here on MN and am not alone. BTW I really enjoy your posts.
UP THE OLDIES

Oh 2old (and you're clearly not.....) it seems there wasn't anyone who offered you even the basic love and care that a child needs, so it is all the more credit to you that you managed to get away from "home" and not only qualify as a nurse but also to make good friends and go on to offer the love and care that you never got to other children.

Course we're not too old to be on MN - I did have a look on "Gransnet" but it didn't really appeal to me. Thing is I don't feel 70 - in my head I still feel 25 (or sometimes 15!) but a look in the mirror soon pulls me up sharp from such notions!

Am just wondering - I was assuming you are a foster carer, but you may have adopted - not sure. Be nice to hear a bit more about your experiences of growing up in the 50s - reading your post set me thinking about a family that lived very near to me when I was a child. I was the youngest of 3 girls and in this family there were 3 girls, roughly the same age as us. They had a stepmother who they called "auntie Ethel" and I used to be puzzled when they used to get their dress dirty by rolling on the grass or something and were frightened to go home, and I have vivid memories of trying to wipe the grass strains off the dress with spit and a hankie, which of course made matters much worse!!

There were other things too that puzzled me, like the way they looked at this "auntie" as though they were scared (and probably were) but I couldn't understand why. Their dad was horrible and used to shout them in from play with a very sharp voice. Looking back I'm sure they were not being treated well by their father and step mother, but they moved house eventually and so we lost touch of course.

Sorry I am lost in a reverie.......it was just your posts made me think about these girls, though they never said anything about their home life. We were always out playing in those days weren't we and even though my parents were quite protective, we had an enormous amount of freedom, and used to go home when we were hungry, and in the light nights we were out till quite late (or that's my memory) anyway.

Maybe you could write your story - I don't mean on here (!) it's just you said it was cathartic to write a few lines about it.

italiangreyhound I know you aren't badgering me :)

I will reply properly tomorrow when I've a little more time.

Dh and I have started to talk about it again, but I don't think we will progress things much for awhile as he is the middle of a job change.

Karbea The process used to take a long time so I would have said to start even though you are not ready yet but to be honest now I think it is much quicker so maybe better for your DH to settle into his new job and of course he has to feel it is right.

If it is all new at work it may be a good time to change exactly how he works, some more from home working or later starts or earlier finishes etc. I know in a new job one wants to look keen but if he starts off with a really heavy work load or rather a heavy 'presence' at work (being the person who leaves the office last etc!) it is harder to slow up later (IMHO) Being able to work form home or be flexible is great as a parent, I don't think it means we work less, in fact I think we try and give more to make up for it!

Thanks NanaNina Your story of your friends rings true and many other cruel things that I really hope would get picked up today. Emotional abuse was ignored I used to plead with her to love me

No I have never fostered I was at our eldest adopted son's delivery (how cool was that?) and when I found out his parents were unable to take him home he was going to be mine forever!! And like Topsy it grew.

One of the best things ever.

Like you am shocked when I glance in a mirror

could really relate to this as got our son in November and go to court next month. the foster dad of tommy was giving off vibes he wasn't happy with the placement with same sex couple. we had a few problems with the foster father too but it is not down to them if you are the right people for the child, it is down to the social workers. they just need to make the transition easy for everyone involved. looking forward to next weeks episode