15,000 Kids and Counting - Episode 2

[Lilka]

Tonight at 9.00 on Channel 4

The Search
This episode follows the search for adoptive parents for a two-year-old boy and a three and seven-year-old brother and sister

With the added challenges of having slightly older children, siblings and a child with possible health issues to place, the task for social workers Annette and Jackie is a massive one

With the future of these children in their hands and recently set government targets to meet, they struggle not to become emotionally involved as they strive to find adopters before time runs out

NanaNina, I don't want to gang up on you but really, you just can't use that language about our children. My daughter is my ownchild and is absolutely NOT my 'next best' thing to having my 'own' child. I absolutely understand where you were coming from in your post, but language is important and using those phrases is just not appropriate. My daughter has been 'my own' for over two years and I have (gently) corrected at least 15 people in that time who have used that phrase or the other one that's bandied about- 'real.' Using that language means that those of us who are adopters are offended on behalf of ourselves and our children, and those that are potential adopters or wander over here, having seen that programme and being interested enough to want further discussion and education on it, read that language and believe it's appropriate language for people to use. It's not. No matter whether you are speaking about children whose AO has not yet been made.

If you read my posting history (I was lettinggo, happyasapiginshite and holycowwhatnow in previous incarnations) you'll see that I have never confronted anyone on these boards about anything ever. I don't do confrontation. But you're wrong. No matter how many years of social work experience you have. I know because I am the mother of my own first-best adopted child (joint first-best with my birth son) who will never ever hear those words without hearing me immediately challenge them.

Yes MrsDeV, I know someone who has seriously considered fostering but would need support with getting suitable housing in place. Surely it would be worthwhile, even financially, for LA's to give this housing support to would be foster carers.
Her understanding is that she would have to get suitable (rented) housing in place, with a spare room or two, before she could start the process of applying to be a foster carer.
I just feel it would be so worthwhile looking afresh at these sort of barriers that people experience.

Sorry I see my second point was explained further up the thread.

Karbea - just PMed you.

I had said to my husband that they would try and put us off (I'm pretty sure some one on this forum had said that to me before we went ;) ) but I guess he hadn't realised quite how much they would.

I'd hope that we wouldn't be given a child that we couldn't cope with, as that wouldn't be for the child or us. I expect to be stretched and challenged and to struggle, but not to be given a child where it would be clear from the start we would fail.
I'd love us to try and give a child an opportunity for a better future, but clearly if the child had issues we couldn't cope with we definitely wouldn't.

I'm sure we would cope with whatever challenges come up, having a puppy has meant he has had to work from home sometimes etc so if he can rejigged his diary for our pup he definitely would for any children we were blessed with.

I'm sorry for derailing and I'm not going to post anything else on this after this.

But, language IS very important

What you said in your first post, Nana, was (many adopters are unable to have their own children)

And that's really not an appropriate use of the words "own child". Many adopters are unable to have birth children. We all have our own children, by adoption. Or, in the case of prospective adopters, will have their own children soon

I don't know how the timing of an AO comes into it. Although, my children absolutely were my own before the AO went through, in every single way bar the legalities. I would never have let anyone tell me that they weren't my own children.

I also felt and feel that saying "I think most prospective adopters want younger children because they feel that it is the next best thing to having your own child" is unfair to prospective adopters and likely to offend and hurt the feelings of the prospective adopters on here. I would hope that social workers aren't knowingly accepting people onto homestudy stage if their attitude is that an adopted child is 'second best' to an 'own child'. By the time people committ to adoption properly, they are committing to having their own child, first best child, by adoption.

I am not splitting hairs. It does hurt people's feelings and offends them to hear this kind of language, whether it's intended to or not.

So rather than being disappointed, and defending language which not just me, but pretty much everybody here feels is inappropriate, I would politely suggest that a better response would be to re-read your post and try and see it from an adoptive or prospective adoptive parents point of view, and try and understand why we find this language inappropriate

Karbea I can only say that IMHO you don't appear to have unrealistic expectations of adoption at all. I think the open evening you went to was not the best one, if it gave the false impression that there are no white children who do not have significant physical disabilities etc

I hope if you have a chat with your husband, it goes well

First4Adoption is a good place to start for everything, not just the agency search

The demographics have changed. There are, sadly, more children waiting than ever before. This includes plenty of children aged 0-2, many children who do have some uncertainty or issues, but not extremely significant issues. I think if you are prepared to accept some level of additional issue, but are not capable of accepting very significant issues, this is a completely normal thing and should not hold you back

No, you don't need to defend yourself to me, but you can't expect to use terms like that and people not be insulted and offended by them, and to say so. Why not just apologise?

Given that you say you're now retired you should perhaps accept that things have clearly moved on (significantly) since you were a social worker, and you are insulting a great number of people with your choice of language.

I am in no way anti-social worker at all, and it's actually worrying that you take my offence at the terms 'own children' and 'second best' being used by a social worker to mean that I am an in any way anti social worker. We get along wonderfully with our social worker, and would bet my life savings on the fact she would never, ever use such terms. I am however, anti-ignorance. You can make of that what you will.

I'm not getting into the rest of your post because I have better things to do with my time.

I really can't say it better, but 100% back up Lilka, Daffodil and others - the wording was pretty offensive, and while I appreciate it's hard to convey nuance and tone on a forum, I definitely found the apparent attitude hurtful and patronising.

OK this is my final post and if I have caused offence to some of the posters then I apologise. However I have never used the words "second best" - and of course I don't believe adopted children are not your own children. Presumably my choice of words upset you - had I said "unable to have a birth child" that would have been ok?

However I think whatever I say now is only going to bring further accusations, so I will not post again.

Don't go NanaNina, your input is valued. We all occasionally type things that come out wrong and because it's the internet, you cannot convey tone and body language. You've apologised and I'm sure everyone will move on from this.

I still haven't got around to watching. I hope to later this evening.

Actually nananina I think bowing out graciously won't repair the offense and hurt you've caused from.your pomposity but I would certainly feel I could post more openly without being lectured. Perhaps a blog would be a better format to share your 30 years experience.

P.s. practise as a verb is an 's'.

Oh no - Nana - please don't abandon the board. I am always fascinated by what you say and your input. I didn't take offence at what you said - though understand some did - but please don't abandon us. I have said things - incl on this board that, rightly or wrongly are misinterpreted.

Thank you for apologising Nana. But you don't need to leave. I've moved on already personally, it's over and done, and I do value your input

And for the record, I've said things in the past on other MN boards that were offensive enough to be deleted, so I'm hardly whiter than white

No, don't go NanaNina you have helped me in the past on the fostering board and even my friend who never goes on mumsnet says things like "well Nana on the mums dot net (as she calls it!) warned you about this!"
Just take on board what people are saying and carry on

NanaNina please don't go your words of wisdom are so useful for probably the oldest mum here...I am not too old to learn.

This is a lovely topic let's be thoughtful to one another

I enjoyed the programme, having been though it all, pannel/matching/intos recently I found it almost therapeutic to reflect on it all again.
There were a couple of moments where someone said something and it made me cringe, but overall it wasn't that bad.
However I hate it when people judge potential adopters for being picky, at least we have said we are willing to adopt! I wasn't picky at all I just worked with the rules set out by sw they decided what age/sex etc and we agreed to our first match. It was about who needed us and not who we wanted.

Nananina is entitled to post,are all of us.im not happy at herd behaviour when posts disliked

It's not herd behaviour. It's a wide dislike of being patronised under the guise of experience. Just as she is entitled to her views so are we entitled to stick up for something we believe in.

The "own children" comment is ignorant at best and inflammatory and potentially damaging at worse. Would it be called herd mentality if someone used similarly clumsy / rude / downright offensive language in another context?

Whoop's!!! Respect all please , Every one expresses opinion's and emotion's in different way's, This enables folks too take things on board and contribute too social changes which will benefit all in the long term, sure lots will pick up on things said and expressed on these boards, this is how things work, Seen and experienced many changes on our journey had too adapt, also contribute by the way of submissions partnerships with NICE,NHS, Research in SEN Education etc., strange but all can only be achieved by reading and listening, too opinions such as these.

If you're online you need the ability to tolerate pov you dislike.goes without saying

this NanaNina person has apologised for her inappropriate choice of words so can we move on and ignore her flounce not allow thread to be derailed further.

Are you saying this nananina person because she referred to you as this iPhone person ?