Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Adoption

Here are some suggested organisations that offer expert advice on adoption.

I want my baby back - Panorama

602 replies

Hels20 · 13/01/2014 09:39

I hesitate to put this on the board but would be interested in the views of anyone who watches this - it's tonight on BBC 1 at 9pm.

I hope it gives a balanced account. Then there is the Channel 4 programme on Wednesday T 10pm on Finding a Mum and Dad.

OP posts:
MrsBW · 16/01/2014 19:45

Madame.... Don't let the truth get in the way of a good conspiracy theory!!

MadameDefarge · 16/01/2014 19:49

well, indeed.

BeyondTheLimitsOfAcceptability · 16/01/2014 19:49

Likewise. And, as I already said, am quite ill at the mo and have mobility issues.

I'm also quite keen on the idea of adopting one day, once my boys are a little older and my health under control

turnwest · 16/01/2014 20:56

oh Madame, point proved I think. What a truly delightful member of the human race you are. Still, if this is what you meant when you sent me a threatening Pm then I m a bit bewildered, do you really think I m bothered by you publishing a PM? HA HA.

MrsBW · 16/01/2014 21:08

Hi turnwest, great to see you back.

What was your point exactly? It's hard to keep up with all the trolls differing points of view on all of these threads.

peacejoy82 · 16/01/2014 21:09

Hi Spero,

I'm just being honest with how I feel. I was in an abusive relationship several years ago, and the person who abused me threatened me that if I reported the abuse, he would cite me as unstable, because I had suffered depression and anxiety in my past. I held back reporting the abuse because of it, and spent my pregnancy in utter terror.
I have learned from various women's centres, that this is common in domestic violence cases. Mothers are threatened by perpetrators, and because of the law as it is, in that parents do risk losing their children, when accusations are made, and from their past health being questioned, many victims do feel afraid to seek help.
It was an awful situation to be in. If mental health wasn't exploited in courts of law, as it is, I believe it would help many abuse victims, as well as mothers who suffer post natal depression - in seeking help. This would be in children's best interests.
I do understand if a child has fractures, or broken bones, precautionary measures should be put in place, of course, whilst investigations are ongoing, but removing children into a care system, in that children are abused, seems wrong. Court proceedings are extremely lengthy, and children being torn apart from their families is psychologically damaging. Surely it would make more sense to place children with their extended families (if CRB, and character checks are carried out?)
I have known people in private court proceedings, who have had information offered in-accurately, and selectively by court reporters, and it is a frightening prospect thinking that this could happen in care cases.
I think it would be a re-assurance to many parents, if there was more transparency, and for cases in that there is 'reasonable doubt', parents be allowed to speak out about it.
I think parents should be allowed to see all of the evidence in bundles, in advance, because without it how can they contest it? And offer evidence to disprove it? If there are in-accuracies, how can they point them out?
I don't think the wheels should start in motion, for forced adoption, if there is any chance of doubt, in public law cases, because once children are adopted, there is no turning back. Parents have lost their children wrongly, and despite judges later making findings to this effect, children are not returned.
I have experience with court, and I know that in-accuracies can happen. People have pointed out how the DM offers stories selectively - what needs to be understood, is that sw's and court reporters, can offer information to judges in exactly the same way. Thankfully the majority of sw's are wonderful, and have children's best interests at heart. But there will always be bad apples - this is just life - it applies to every job sector.
Court reporters can offer damning reports to the court, very easily. I'll give you an example: a parent suffered depression in their past, alcohol misues as a teenager, and self-harm (perhaps they were raped, and this affected them in their teenager years.) Several years later the mother has a baby, she seperates from the father, and during a custody dispute, he cites her as mentally unstable, knowing that in her past she suffered problems.
A good court reporter would look at the evidence, in relation to the child: Is the child well looked after by the mother? Hitting all of her mile-stones? Happy - healthy? It would also be recorded in the report that the mothers past health problems are in her past.
A bad court reporter would offer to the judge 'history of alcohol misuse, self-harm, and depression'. It's not just newspapers that offer information selectively.
Imagine if this happened in a care case, it would be devastating. Judges can only make decisions based on what they have in front of them.
There have also been cases publicised, in that opinions were used to take children. I don't think children should be removed based in opinion alone, opinions will always be subjective, and could be wrong.
I think facts should be offered in court reports, but that all the facts should be offered, not selectively.
Maybe somebody can think of a better idea to improve things?

LokiIsMine · 16/01/2014 21:10

It's interesting that there is a shared characteristic amongst some posters whereby they accuse those with whom they disagree of believing that the care system is infallible. I have yet to see anyone claim that to be the case, so where on earth does that repeated allegation by people like Latinmama123 come from?

Another Hemming supporter angered by the fact that this board (meaning MN) is allowing us to post? Go back to those silly sites like victimsunite, where all of you wackos can have a party together, a wackadoodle party. Cheer up all together and just repeat to each other how intelligent and knowleadgeable you are.

turnwest

For you: direct yourself to the same place I just sent LatinMama to. There, you'll live happily ever after, all together, agreeing all time about what a saint John Hemming is. Make Joseph as your Pope, if possible.

In the meantime, my hero is still MadameLefarge, who is enough witty, smart and brave to report your threatening PM.
I'm not a bully, I'm Italian. So beware ;)

sherlockswife01 · 16/01/2014 21:13

Erm... I though this was a thread discussing the tv programme? Have I come to the wrong place?

turnwest · 16/01/2014 21:15

No. If I want to express my opinions then I will do so, I won't be bullied off any thread.

MrsBW · 16/01/2014 21:16

No. If I want to express my opinions then I will do so, I won't be bullied off any thread.

Indeed.

Could you just summarise your opinion for the slower amongst us?

LokiIsMine · 16/01/2014 21:22

Spero

I have learned from various women's centres, that this is common in domestic violence cases. Mothers are threatened by perpetrators, and because of the law as it is, in that parents do risk losing their children, when accusations are made, and from their past health being questioned, many victims do feel afraid to seek help.

peacejoy82, sorry if I quote part of your post to make my point clear to Spero.

See, that's what I am scared about. Is Hemming's scaremongering practice putting off mothers to report abuse?

peacejoy

What you just explained in your post is a very common situation. I shouldn't say this, but welcome to the group of the abused-not-believed women.

DV and abuse in families are widespread all over Britain, yet the common belief is that nobody cares because that will never happen to them.
To change the system, as you asked, we should change how the society reacts to the problem and that abused people are not disbelieved up front. So it is NOT just about family courts, it is about anyone who's abused and then threatened to pay with their children/life/whatever if they report the crime.

LokiIsMine · 16/01/2014 21:24

Loki

I won't be bullied off any thread.

You're bullying off yourself this thread, because it is not very polite to send threatening PMs to people and accuse them to be bullies.

So if you want to express your opinion, care to do it politely please?

LokiIsMine · 16/01/2014 21:26

sherlockwife

Erm... I though this was a thread discussing the tv programme? Have I come to the wrong place?

Hemmingfans derail any thread. They're not happy if they don't do that. It makes them happy. Whatever floats their boat, I guess.

Sherlockwife, what a nice nick :)

FamiliesShareGerms · 16/01/2014 21:36

Right, just ploughed through the thread.

My thoughts, FWIW:

  • I thought the programme was beyond irresponsible to feature JH's "go abroad" advice so early in the programme, with some balance in the form of the family where the little boy was diagnosed not appearing until some time later.
  • ditto re featuring photos of children who had been adopted
  • I asked a Q of JH and IJ literally years ago to get them to set out how the huge costs in going all the way through the adoption process are at all offset by these apparent "child snatching bonuses". I'm still waiting...
  • This data was published this week showing numbers of adoptions and how quickly children move from foster care to adoption. I can't open it on my silly phone, but from memory as many family residence orders were made as adoption orders - ie children are placed with members if their family as often as children are placed with a new adoptive family.
  • I am an adoptive parent but also a birth parent. The thought of having either of my children taken away from me is absolutely heart rending, and I genuinely feel for parents who find themselves in that position. That said, my DD's birth mother accepted (because she told me herself) that she could not look after DD adequately, and adoption gave DD a chance to break the intergenerstional cycle of abuse. That has to be a good thing, surely.
turnwest · 16/01/2014 21:44

Will you listen? Or will I just get shouted down for dating to disagree?

Look, I don't understand adoption laws, I know that. I don't really know who John Hemming is or why people hate him. I have no idea who wizard is who you also attacked. I don't post very often, because I m aware that I m not as eloquent as most of you and therefore I worry that my opinions will be ridiculed , which they have been.

However, the programme on forced adoption really upset me and frightened me a little. I ve had pretty bad PND in the past, and to be fair health visitors and doctors were all very helpful. Social services never even involved, even when at a particularly low time I begged them to help me give my daughter up for adoption. Thankfully no listened and I got better. But this programme made me worry that I could so easily have lost my precious child and even when recovered I may never have got her back, despite never failing to keep her fed and clothed well.

I ve read a lot of the thread and I understand that the programme was not quite balanced and that social workers are not looking to steal my children. I don't think adopters are any less of a parent than I am, I just feel sorry for anyone who s had a child taken wrongfully and yes I know that most children are removed for the right reasons. But if a child is adopted and the parents later proved to be innocent then there must be a middle ground somewhere? Anyway that's all I kept trying to say, despite being attacked by Madame and others. Is it really so bad to have a different opinion? You ve chased shickenpops and latinmama off this thread with your aggressiveness. Why? Can no one express a different opinion?

Well I m off back to the very few threads I m actually interested in, and leave you all to agree with each other.

MrsBW · 16/01/2014 21:52

Turnwest

In all seriousness...

I find your lat pet really interesting. People worry that, due to depression, their children will be removed.

You had PND, begged them to actually remove your children. And they didn't.

Why doesn't that increase your faith in 'the system' rather than decrease it?

What do you think the middle ground should be... (that is in the best interest of the child, not the birth patent)

MrsBW · 16/01/2014 21:52

last post not lat pet.

MrsBW · 16/01/2014 21:53

Fucking hell. parent not patent.

LokiIsMine · 16/01/2014 21:58

turnwest

Of course all posters are entitled to their opinion, yet you just didn't give your opinion, you called other posters bullies. Now, that doesn't make a good general impression, not just on MN, everywhere.

But if a child is adopted and the parents later proved to be innocent then there must be a middle ground somewhere?

Is a child a package that can be moved back and forth between families? Is that what you believe in? Sorry, but it makes no sense to me. My opinion, of course.

turnwest · 16/01/2014 22:01

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

MrsBW · 16/01/2014 22:05

And yet, when asked a question and engaged in 'sensible debate' you choose instead to have another pop at a different poster Confused

MadameDefarge · 16/01/2014 22:08

why don't we just agree to not engage with each other, Turn? I have never come across you before. You don't like my posting style. Each to their own, eh?

nennypops · 16/01/2014 22:24

I can't see where shickenpops was bullied away? All I've seen was polite responses to her. So far as I know, she was going to come back to us with the absolute proof that local authorities are paid bonuses of £40K per adoption, and we are still waiting for her to do so.

Spero · 16/01/2014 22:25

Peace I am sorry to hear what you went through and that you are so frightened.

But you say that parents 'ought' to be able to see all the evidence against them in advance!

Of course they do! What do you think I do in my job? I am the parents' lawyer. I see all the documents as they are produced. They are all collected in a big file. My clients see them and write their own statements in response with assistance of their solicitors.

I simply cannot understand and it makes me want to weep that this misconception that parents are not allowed to see the evidence against them is repeated on EVERY SINGLE THREAD about this, despite me saying SINCE 2011 that it is just. Not. true.

By all means, lets debate what needs debating. It is this constant promulgation of dangerous untruths that makes me so fucking angry.

LokiIsMine · 16/01/2014 22:26

turnwest

...attacking posters will only lead to more posters reporting you....

And no MadameDefarge is not a bully. If she was, she would attack everyone.

Swipe left for the next trending thread