I want my baby back - Panorama

[Hels20]

I hesitate to put this on the board but would be interested in the views of anyone who watches this - it's tonight on BBC 1 at 9pm.

I hope it gives a balanced account. Then there is the Channel 4 programme on Wednesday T 10pm on Finding a Mum and Dad.

Dear spero and AnyFucker,
I can certainly find the evidence of this. It is in the files I kept so need to go back through 2 yrs worth of stuff. I am happy to find it and post links.
Bear with me and I will try and do that today.
I say JH is right because even with all our resources, intellectect and professional backgrounds, in our darkest days, which was most of the experiance, I never thought we would get there. I feel for the pain of ordinary families who cant take time of work, havent the energy /support/family behind them to keep going. It cost all of us a fortune in money and more in our own health and stress.
I have to say I have never met JH. Im just glad he has highlighted a growing issue in british life. Even the slovakian goverment has called for a judicial review as so many solvakian immigrants have been affected.
Britain has the worse reputation in europe for forced adoption.
My own MP was very supportive.
The last judge was influential in that in that I requested an independent social worker to report and he agreed. The 3 judges before that were heavily influced by Child services. The last one saw us 4 times.
note-when I say ordinary families, ours isnt exceptional, I am just referring to how difficault it is/would be to fight this and for the duration it takes.

Shicken, I agree that all sounds like a nightmare, but ultimately the system did work as it is meant to do and enabled you to challenge those social workers and get the right result.

As people have pointed out, John Hemming has been asked for years to produce proof of his assertions that LAs are paid a bonus per child and has never managed to produce it despite being an MP and having access to paid researchers, but if you have the proof, do let us know where to find it.

One further point: a contested adoption case will cost local authorities way more than £40,000, so I'm not sure that the "bonus" you refer to is really much of an incentive to them to take children for adoption when they don't honestly believe they have strong grounds to do so?

How do we know our friend wizard has been banned? Is it announced somewhere? And should we deduce it has something to do with certain references to obtaining photographs of posters' families?

Thanks schiken, I would like to see that.

Thanks for taking time to reply.

I may be offline for a while as I am heading into Shropshire with no mobile signal so if I don't reply soon please don think I am ignoring you.

maybe you could cut it out and put it into a little locket?

Sorry to interrupt guys - I realise this is a very emotional moment for you.

But I was wondering what would happen if years down the line it was proved that the parents didn't harm their child?

Has it ever happened?

Obviously te adoption would stand as you can't rip the poor child from another mummy and daddy but would the birth parents regain rights?

My instinct is that the best solution would be for all four parents to be treated as parents and for them to muddle through it together. (In the way that divorced couples do.) I guess that would probably mean living with the adoptive parents but spending lots of time with the birth parents once they get to know them

Sorry - bit of a brain dump there!

Schickenpops a lot of judges in the family court have been listening to the same experts for years that they believe what they say and are very critical of experts that try to show new evidence. And the experts (some make a lot of money from saying the same again and again and don't want to have to admit they may have been wrong) gang against the ones that disagree. Things are slowly changing, mostly after baby Wray but there is a long way to go. Most mistakes are with very young babies rather than with older children

Shickenpops, I have read your post with great sadness. One of the greatests sadnesses, is that the majority of people labelled 'mentally ill' simply suffer with depression or anxiety related problems, that can be solved.
Removing parents children from them, in particular mothers, when they have carried them, felt them kicking, dreaming about what they will look like, and grow up to be like (for nine months), is an absolutely breech of human rights.
I can honestly say I feel ashamed to live in the UK right now.

nennypops I reported wizard last night* for being threatening to AF, the facebook stuff and general creepy weirdness. I also said I suspected he had been here before under different name/s.

MNHQ confirmed this morning, in no uncertain terms, that he won't be back

*Am sure I'm not the only one who reported

Can I ask a question? Why do so many people on this forum say bad things about John Hemming?

He is one of the only M.P's who goes out of his way to raise awareness for injustices that happen. If you lost your child wrongfully, to forced adoption, or your child was taken into care, how heart-broken would you feel? Knowing your child has been put into a care system renowned for child abuse.

I don't think Mr. Hemming condemns social workers, as-a-whole, but points out the system itself is flawed.

I think parents need protecting in the present climate. Parents are genuinelly afraid to send their children to school, if they have fallen from their bikes, and sustained bruising, or cuts, for fear of losing their children (teachers are trained to record and report injuries), and mothers suffering from depression and anxiety, daren't seek help. This is very real.

We are one of the only countries to practice forced adoption, and few other countries in the world remove children from parents, without evidence that parents are abusive. I feel sad to live in the UK at present, I will admit. I hope the law will change.

The UK system is far from perfect. If I were to have another child I would go to Spain. Too many knee jerk reactions here. Everybody too quick to judge without enough knowledge. Why not leave the kids with the grandparents or aunts? One of the kids in the program had 4 foster homes before being adopted. Another was not given to the grandma because she was not prepare to accept that her daughter harmed the baby (by the way, the baby she had in Spain reached his first year without even a bruise).

Peacejoy, I am physically disabled and have a long history of mental health problems. It would never occur to me to try to hide any problems, as I put my childrens needs first. And somehow I have managed to visit a&e with them, psych help for myself, and even self referred to adult SS and they are yet to be stolen.

Some parents are paranoid, JH encourages this paranoia with no basis for it. And yes, all the reasons maryz mentions too.

To any parents who have lost children and are reading this thread :

I would just like to say that some of the more recent posts are taking the piss out of certain posters who have form here and have been seen as troublemakers .

I sincerely hope that they are not mocking any parents who have lost a child. Because that would be cruel and heartless. Regardless of the circumstances that have led to that happening.

The baby reached its first year without so much as a bruise. I missed that. What happened to the argument about health problems meaning injuries would keep happening? Her dh didnt see the baby til 18m old, did he?

Really Kristina? would you like to name names of posters you consider to have form and are seen as troublemakers?

Do share. Don't just insinuate. If you want to say someone is a shit, just go ahead, or say their post is shitty. Don't do passive aggressive vagueness.

I am reporting you anyway.

We are one of the only countries to practice forced adoption

That isn't correct, a huge number of countries have adoption without parental consent. It's more uncommon for a country not to do it.

The reasons we don't like JH have been gone over and over and over on scores of threads over the years. It comes down to the fact that whilst everyone acknowledges some reform is needed, Hemming has spread conspiracy theories, aligned himself with complete nutacses like Ian Josephs, never has evidence to back up his conspiracy claims, and goes about trying to get reform in the wrong way

I am glad to live in a country where children who have had the most appalling starts in life can be adopted and be able to be a part of a proper caring family. The idea that children like my adopted children should live their whole childhoods in care and never have a proper family is frightening and very upsetting

But I was wondering what would happen if years down the line it was proved that the parents didn't harm their child?

Has it ever happened?

Obviously te adoption would stand as you can't rip the poor child from another mummy and daddy but would the birth parents regain rights?

I'm not sure there's ever been a case where it has been proved beyond all doubt, but I'm not 100%. There have been cases which are likely to be miscarriages of justice but nothing proved because the evidence has never been tested and a court made a conclusion

If it ever did happen, then no, the birth parents can't regain rights in the sense of 'reverse the adoption'. There is a small time period after an adoption order is made to appeal it on very limited grounds (that the correct legal procedures were not followed) but after that, the effect of adoption is that the child has, in a legal sense, been re-born to their adoptive parents. It is 'as if' they gave birth to the child. The birth parents are not related to the child any more. There's no legal way to reverse that in law and have the birth parents regarded as 'the mother and father'

That said, lets suppose it was determined that it was in a hypothetical childs best interests to share custody with their adoptive and birth parents. I don't think there's any legal reason why if the adoptive parents consented, the birth parents couldn't get one of the orders that step parents usually get, which gives you parental responsibility until the child becomes (it is an adult, or 16?). But when the child becomes an adult, the birth parents would stop having responsibilities and wouldn't be regarded as being related to the child, except for laws on incest/marriage etc

unless you are referring to John H etc?

why you would consider disliking his nonsense as akin to mocking a parent who has had a child removed from their care?

Or do I just not get what you are trying to say?

Can I call him a knob now he is banned?

Yep :)

Beyond the limits you may need to watch the program again. The child I refer is Aylssa's little brother who was 1 year old when he got Spanish nationality. You also misquote the bit about 18 year old. the grandmother said that she could not wait until he was 18 years old (he is 4) because she would likely be dead.
Lilka remember some years ago the family accused of harming their baby who had fractures and brain bleeding and they took all 4 kids away? parents fled abroad while mum was pregnant and had another child. In the meantime they found experts who found that the "abused" baby had scurvy (vitamin C deficiency). They finally came back to the UK to claim their children back and were told that adoption was irreversible and that they were very sorry about the miscarriage of justice but...
They may not be that many cases but one is one too many and I know of more than 1.

I think you may need to reread my post :)

One could also consider the fact that the father had not lived with the baby in that first year as an interesting thing concerning broken bones.

We never did get to the bottom of his 'made up confessioni'

By the way latinmama, my apologies, I forgot to say welcome to mumsnet :)

ah! Is it welcome tea party time?