I read this today 'How adopting an angelic five-year-old blew our family apart', it's in the daily mail but I felt it was interesting to ask what could have been done differently and by whom?

[Italiangreyhound]

I read this today 'How adopting an angelic five-year-old blew our family apart', it's in the daily mail but I felt it was interesting to ask what could have been done differently and by whom?

www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-554769/How-adopting-angelic-year-old-blew-family-apart.html

Sorry if this article is upsetting for anyone, it is not posted for that reason. Just looking for comments and ideas on how things could be done differently, and hopefully are done differently in some places.

Buster51 sorry you are having a hard time. It is tricky figuring out what works. I tried time in. DS was kept by my side, chatted to, sometimes nonsense chat, sometimes chat relevant to behaviour. It worked to a point. Likewise, naughty spot. It was a round rug that I could move around. So we could still be in the same room. There is a book 99 ways to drive your child sane. It uses humour to tackle situations. Very effective.
What has your DH read about behavioural problems? Eventually everyone will be on the same page. His behaviour will be more recognised by everyone. I went through a stage where I thought everyone else thought I was losing the parenting plot! If that makes sense. Life got a little easier when we realised DS could only handle 20 mins of fun at a time. I forgot once and got a two handed slap on my face..... Transference was also something I had to learn about. How feelings from the child can be transferred to an adult. Blew my mind. Literally. My DS was internalising a lot of anger. At that point, for me, CAHMS were a godsend. Also reading. A lot of reading.

Sunshine it sounds like a lot of individual parents are fighting individual corners and I just wonder if any parenting or children's charity, or organisation like Mumsnet could spearhead a campaign for better services, get someone like Tanya Byron or the like involved. Does anyone have any local experience of this?

I am almost not sure what to ask for but I feel that social services/NHS and educational services are failing children (and parents) on a massive scale. These kids will grow up and if issues have not been worked through they may go on to require much more intensive and expensive treatment/support and help from society/NHS/etc etc.

My friend's child took year's be diagnosed with ASD.

Exactly what could ordinary parents do? I am not thinking of a specific need I have currently but it seems unfair and wrong that this issues only get addressed when one parent fights for their child. What about better servies for all kids who need help. It's our tax payer money that funds these services.

Ghost would '99 ways to drive your child sane' be useful for a parent with a child with Aspergers, or Autism or PDA (Pathological demand Avoidance)? In the blurb it mentions ODD (oppositional defiant disorder) and I wonder if PDA and ODD and Autism are all a tiny bit similar? I have a friend who this may be useful for but don't want to suggest anything if it is not appropriate.

Italiangreyhound I think that as long as the child understands humour it will work. I don't think they necessarily need to like the humour though! It releases tension all round. I cannot remember any examples from the book at the moment. I will dig it out tomorrow and put some on here. That may help you decide.

Thanks Ghost.

I have not managed to read through all of the replies to the original post, but I did read through the DM article.

My adopted DD is 14. She has been living with us for 10 and a half years. She suffered neglect and a catastrophic non-accidental injury at 22 months which has scarred her significantly for life. She has RAD - mostly as a result of the neglect before AND after her injury (hospitalised with no parent present for 3 months aged 2 post-injury). She probably did not suffer abuse and neglect for as long or as overtly as 'Alex' - the only surprise to me is that everyone is so surprised at Alex's brokenness. I spent the first 18-24 months of her placement positively willing my DD to be 'normal against all the odds'. When I had my first birth child I realised everything DD had not had and finally gave in and allowed her to be broken - to recognise and accept that no one can go through what she had been through and not be deeply and - I believe - pretty permanently damaged. It took DH another 18-24 months and 6 years ago we started to properly address the issues, including understanding how attachment disorders are not just about the child - our attachments are all disordered and yes, a lot of strange control stuff is part of that. We are all living in some kind of survival, self-preservation mode ALL THE TIME. It never ever ends. Self-awareness is the only things that begins to heal it or allow coping to a greater or lesser extent.

Nothing in this article surprises me, nor is exaggerated or overrated. Living with a child with RAD is unbelievably hard work. It is relentless. You live burned-out. You live emotionally damaged. You live with a reality that most people you know and nearly all people you meet will not ever understand what shape your life has become or what effort it takes to process all the stuff going on within your family every single day. That said, I believe we have 'got off lightly'. My daughter is clever and capable and academically able. She is bright and funny and loves us and her siblings immeasurably. She has attached well to us, but even after 10 years every single day is a challenge and a work in progress. She still struggles to trust. She copes with life by dissociative behaviour and can be hideous company. She will struggle with relationships her whole life, I believe. My whole body often hurts with the effort of loving and living with her.

AND we now have good, accessible, specialised support, though only because DD has been awarded specific criminal injuries compensation in order to afford it. Without that we would, frankly, be lost.

If you know someone who has adopted and you cannot make sense of what they are saying about their home life. Stop trying to understand, at least before you have properly found out about and understood RAD and it's affects. Once you have grasped the enormity and all pervading nature of it, you will understand what has happened to your friend or loved one. Then encourage them to seek specialised (probably private) therapeutic help. Then offer them unbelievable and unconditional acts of love and acceptance.

That is all.

misspollysdolly

that is all

I spent the first 18-24 months of her placement positively willing my DD to be 'normal against all the odds'. When I had my first birth child I realised everything DD had not had and finally gave in and allowed her to be broken - to recognise and accept that no one can go through what she had been through and not be deeply and - I believe - pretty permanently damaged

I also went through a similar process (minus birth child) with DD1 who has had attachment issues and PTSD (but does not have RAD and I am very aware that full blown RAD would have been much harder), and you said it so beautifully IMHO. I had to accept her as she was, for who she was, and recognise that whilst I can help her make progress, I can't change who she is as a result of what she's been through. And to accept that, I had to go through a lot of grief and hurt, before i could move forwards

FWIW, I wasn't at all surprised that Alex had such huge issues, nor that a multitude of 'little things' led to emotional exhaustion and burn-out. If anything surprises me, it's a generally held belief (not by anyone on this thread to make this very clear, but you do hear it on MN and lots IRL) that children are so much more resilient than adults when it comes to dealing with abuse - that a child could go through significant abuse and neglect and then manage to literally forget about it and have it hugged away. I always find it insulting to my DD's actually - like people are dismissing what they've been through and suggesting they should have gotten over it. But why should say, a 3 year rape victim be more resilient than an adult rape victim? Why would a 3 year old who has lived for all their life with violence, shouting and emotional abuse be able to move on so much easier than an adult who has suffered such abuse from a partner? It doesn't make any sense

misspollysdolly just wanted to say thank you for sharing.

misspollysdolly there aren't any more words to say from me but I am very grateful you have told us, just to help with general understanding.

I read the book, it was given to me by a friend who is a psychologist who recognised what our family going through. She hadn't felt able to read the whole book herself as she struggled with the behaviour of the mother. I told her that I could have easily written the first half of the book myself.

As I understood it (but it's a long time since I read it), Alex's mother asked for her to be returned to the status of a looked after child with the intention of keeping her with them. This was so that the family, including Alex, could access the support network given to LAC, that is often so woefully lacking once you have adopted.

In our case, DD's manipulative behaviour made it impossible to have whole family get-togethers any more. My mother believes that DS2 is a cruel bully toward DD, a fact that couldn't be further from the truth. DD loves the fact the she has Granny all to herself... I have seen her openly smirk behind my mother's back when she has engineered a disagreement between us. Fortunately, most of the adults in our life have listened, read around the subject and understand that if DD's manipulative behaviour is completely ignored, or firmly (but gently) discouraged, she is a happier girl. Her teacher is amazing!

Sorry, I forgot to say, but Social Services refused to let Alex stay within the family home.

I think first their idea was that they should have the adoption annulled and foster Alex instead, that was certainly what the article said....but obviously that's completely impossible, adoptions can't be anulled. Maybe then they asked to care for her (as their legal daughter) at home whilst she was on a care order (can't remember?), but social services didn't agree with that.

Social services certainly completely denied she had these emotional issues, and they did the classic 'blame the parents, refuse to believe anything they say' thing rather than put in any help...because money, money, money, and because of lack of knowledge too I assume

Sorry if I offend anyone and I am aware this will be hugley controversial in this forum. I am coming at this not as an adoptive parent but as a children's social worker, and a lot of what I read in the article upset me. I know that adoption support services are massively lacking and it sounds like in this case there was a failure in assessment.
But it also sounds like the adopters sought out a child for the wrong reasons and rejected her when she turned out not to be an "angel" they could rescue. Talking about her behavior in terms of "tactics" and as if it is all deliberate. It feels, from this article, as though Alex is always viewed differently from the birth child whose welfare is so important to them.
I find it utterly repulsive that this child will be able to identify herself from this, and that details of her early childhood have even included. I can't understand this at all. There isn't a justifiable reason for it.
Finally, I would like to say that the local authority has no right of reply in cases like this and social workers like me cannot defend their actions. So, we only have one side of the story here.
I recognise adoption can be enormously difficult but I really feel there are a lot of red flags here.

A lot of behaviour is deliberate. It is very difficult to convince others of this. It is planned, life is all about control., reaction, manipulation, fooling others. It has been a while since I read this book but I felt they just had no idea that a child can be like this. (Neither did I 'til I met DS2 to be fair but I had internet and 20 extra years on my side) I feel very clumsy trying to explain. A RAD child is not behaving the way I would if I were deliberately winding some one up. They are hard wired to behave like this. It is normal for them. I would know that it was making life difficult for others, I would be aware I was not dealing with things in a conventional manner. I would feel a bit guilty, maybe start to modify my behaviour to fit in. A RAD child would feel safe, in control, maybe even a little happy.
It is difficult when dealing with SW's and other professionals, even family and friends who don't understand the children, people who think the parents/carers are being negative toward a child who is projecting the persona of a sweet cutie. Again, I am very lucky, I would say 90% of my colleagues and friends were supportive. I couldn't have managed otherwise. However, I would never write a book about a particular child. I would be uncomfortable with the way that child is being made public property. It is not my story, I am simply a couple of chapters in my childs story

Totally agree with the previous post. That is what I found most difficult to deal with / still do - the deliberate manipulative behaviour. I'm sure some people still do think in crazy, even DH "doesn't always see it".

That said, at least I'm now aware of it, so I can start to move forward from feeling like this monster who DS is set out to really hurt! I am starting to accept that he's doing it/there are reasons why (I will never know truly?) so I have managed to almost completely ignore it recently. touch A LOT of wood it seems to have died down a little bit since I have "chilled".

What has become apparent since this behaviour has been ignored to me, is that he is desperately needing to feel a sense of control. He has started to "tell us" we can do things, how we should do things, even referred to himself as am equal adult the other day! So that is something we are aware of & try to give him sensible choices.

On a side note, & I feel bad saying it! But I am really worried about the attachment on my side (9 weeks in), I just don't feel the way I think "I'm meant to". :(

There is no 'feel the way you are meant to'. You are building a relationship. It is only nine weeks. Bet it feels a lot longer though. Your feelings will grow slowly and steadily, making a strong foundation for your future with him. Don't worry and try and force things. He will be resisting you, probably not trusting you are going to be permanent? Birth child, adopted child = a life times work. Worth it though.
Yes, if you are aware of one behaviour and dealing with it quietly, another one will appear. Fact. I hope you have someone you can 'dump' on? That is really important. Someone who won't judge or say "my Jimmy does that". No, he doesn't. (Unless, of course, your friend has a similar situation)
You can pm me if you like. My youngest is tricky but I feel he is responding more to me, in a positive way. So there can be progress. You sound like you are doing great so far Buster.

Buster 9 weeks into my own adoptions, I was NOT feeling any love.

Sometimes I liked my kids and enjoyed their company...other times I resented their presence and disliked them

There is no right or wrong way to feel, there is no way you are 'supposed' to feel in this situation. Although 'overwhelmed' and 'not feeling anything' are very common feelings to have. Often it's a slow road to bonding. Remember that in the end you won't love your son any less than those people who bonded instantly, you'll all love your children with the same unconditional mothers love.

Also remember that the definition of attachment is a long term emotional relationship. Attachment is not short term by it's very meaning. You are still in the short term, you haven't known each other for long at all, and it's totally normal that you aren't feeling much yet

Don't feel guilty, look afer yourself x

We've had a few great bonding threads, I'm going to have a dig for the best ones now

This is our best bonding and attachment thread IMHO - so many people sharing their honest stories, I hope it's helpful

I also found this one

Buster, it's still really early days. Give yourself time, you're not meant to feel any particular way. Every child and situation is different. I read on here "fake it, till you feel it"! Helps me through. Also, it's possible to love a child without liking their behaviour- true of birth or adopted children. You're doing great and asking for all the right kind of help. Keep going.

I have read the book 'the trouble with Alex'
The book and the title bothered me. Both suggest that Alex is to blame. The whole tone upsets me as does talk of manipulative behaviours as it (to me) suggests conscious and deliberate manipulation
I see it as a child whose needs have not been met and lacking trust that adults will meet those needs

My DD had appalling FC and I could see behaviours that could be labelled as manipulative. She was pretty much ignored so she was very destructive, this got her attention
She would pretend to want to touch something high up, this got her picked up so she gained physical closeness

This was about her finding ways to have her needs met and we would all use manipulation if we had unmet needs
If it is seen as a need then it becomes understandable
My DD rejected DH and DS. She would ask them to move somewhere else and say she did not love them
We always gave the same response- thats fine but we all love you
It is IMO important to accept their feelings, understand why they behave as they do and give unconditional love

Sorry my post seems quite abrupt, seriously sleep deprived
Parenting my DD is the biggest challenge I have ever faced but she still deserves, and needs, love and understanding
A therapist once told me that an attachment disordered child is like a sieve, all the love seeps out of them and it can feel like you are giving and giving with nothing in return
There needs to be a lot of work done around appropriate intervention and more resources for support
Our CAMHS are rubbish and, so far, have caused more harm than good
IMO the government is misguided in their speeding up of the approval process and will lead to more disruption
They should have focused on post adoption support