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Adoption

Here are some suggested organisations that offer expert advice on adoption.

Any other adopters out there?

109 replies

suejonez · 15/05/2006 14:23

I'm in the process of adopting internationally. Hoping to be matched by Sept. Anyone else?

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suejonez · 27/05/2006 09:33

I'm off to Brighton to stay with a friend. I'm going to try to forget all about waiting for my paperwork to be approved by the Kazakh embassy (yeah right).

I've arranged a meting with the consul and my little webgroup of people also adopting from Kazakhstan next week so that should be good - looking forward to it. I'm also hoping that he'll
tell me whats happening to my dossier.

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Issyfit · 27/05/2006 10:47

Hi suejonez

I'm just diving on here to say 'hello'. We adopted our two girls from Vietnam in 2001 and Cambodia in 2003 when they were 4 months and 12 months respectively (now nearly 4 and 5 and a half to save you doing the maths!). I'm 42, my husband is disabled by MS and I work full-time. So we don't fit the classic profile for adopters either!

The girls are fabulous - right now (10.30am on a Saturday morning) they are still in their PJs, building a den together in the sitting room out of chairs, cushions and rugs and furnishing it with beds and play food!

I'm really busy at the moment so have been staying off Mumsnet - well trying to. Much better women than I have failed! But I will keep looking at this thread if you want to chat.

suejonez · 27/05/2006 14:34

Thanks Issyfit - any tips for the wait in between being approved in the Uk and travelling? I'm trying to save money and holidays so I'm a bit short of options! Learning Russian is keeping me out of trouble to some degree but I'm a bit concerned that I'm so distracted my work is beginning to suffer.

I beginning to get really tetchy with people who ask me "any news yet?". Do they think I'm going to keep it a secret when I find out I can travel at last!

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Issyfit · 27/05/2006 19:22

Hi SueJonez

Hell! I remember that wait; it was awful. What can you do? I think that learning Russian is a great idea. This is also a good time to read all of those more 'difficult' adoption books or visit the sites on attachment disorder etc.. I'm sure that Adoption UK (www.adoptionuk.org) will have a booklist/site list and I can recommend Caroline Archer's First Steps in Parenting the Child Who Hurts. I expect you've already covered alot of this ground in your adoption course and that you will either scare yourself silly as you read them or convince yourself that none of this will be relevant to you (I scared myself silly and the vast, vast majority of it wasn't relevant to me), but it will still be much easier to access the ideas and strategies about these issues, if you are really familiar with them before you adopt.

Beyond that, it's just the same advice for anybody who is pregnant, do everything you can do now, because you won't have time when you bring your child home.

And how do you make the wait more bearable? I'm really not sure I can answer that. I tried to ration myself to just x minutes a day of surfing websites/hanging out on listservs/dreaming/harrassing my adoption agency/drifting around Mothercare, so that I could both give in to but control that horrible distracted longing. But it rarely worked!

And yes, the 'Any news yet' was annoying, but I think people just run out of things to say.

Issyfit/Issymum

Issyfit · 27/05/2006 20:05

I'm not sure I expressed myself very well in my last post (my excuse is that I'm very jet-lagged). On the books and websites about adoption issues, I said that "the vast, vast majority of it wasn't relevant to me". By that, I meant that as it turned out neither of the girls had any attachment issues. However, I deployed alot of the strategies in the Caroline Archer book to strengthen their attachment and of course all the other stuff - the 'where do I come from' and 'why' questions, telling the girls their adoption stories, life-books, trying to make sense of what 'preserving cultural heritage' means in suburban Surrey - was extremely relevant to the girls and us as a family.

controlfreaky2 · 27/05/2006 21:33

overseas adoption story in guardian weekend today. thought those on this thread might be interested....

suejonez · 28/05/2006 22:21

Hi CF2 was that the one about India? I heard about it elsewhere. Is it on their website, do you know.

Issyfit - would you say that Caroline Archer's book was the most useful one for you?

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controlfreaky2 · 28/05/2006 22:50

not sure re website... but was re india. by jane clarke the nutrition / health journo. interesting (and happy ending!). get a friend to save their copy for you?

suejonez · 28/05/2006 22:54

Can I admit that I don't know anyone who reads the guardian?! I'm sure that says something about me - I'm just not quite sure what!

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controlfreaky2 · 28/05/2006 22:58

Shock suej. what do you and all your mates read then?? hey, that would be a good thread...
i have it but dont understand / do this cat thingymagig. if you would like it how cld i get it to you? work address? if not on web. try guardian unlimited in google. if not repost and will post my email addy

suejonez · 28/05/2006 23:00

I read times and standard
Mum reads daily Mail Blush (on her behalf)
Other friends read observer and independent

My mum says she only buys the Mail for the TV pages !!!! I have tried to convince her that the mail hates women but she won't have it.

i'll check Guardian online first

thanks

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rubyloo · 28/05/2006 23:17

hi there.
Ive recently worked in a post adoption/fosteing CAMHS team (student placment). A couple of thoughts. One about the journey to parenthood. Everyone's journey affects their relationship with their child, its just not deemed as significant as failed IVF adoption journey.. but it is. Understanding your journey and making sense of it seems the most important thing not what it actually is!.

Also that book by Caroline Archer is fantastic. A very good recomendation I thought.

Finally adopters told me that the information overoad pre-adoption was almost too much .. what they felt was more helpful was regular top-ups as and when their child hit relevant milestones or difficulites unique to being adopted (particulary important for attachment related issues)

Best of luck..
xx

Tortington · 29/05/2006 00:08

they said i coulodjnt have another room. good job they didnmt know ipwas apiss head

suejonez · 29/05/2006 08:51

Errrr... is this supposed to make sense to me?

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MamatoHoney · 29/05/2006 08:58

hi sue i dont think that it suppose to make sence i think that she must be replying to some thing else anyway how are you hows the russian going

suejonez · 29/05/2006 09:07

Oh good - not just me losing my marbles then! Russian is coming along but I doubt I will ever be evn close to fluent. It least I can read it pretty fluently now so will be Ok with menus and street signs. And I can be polite and discuss the weather etc (so English!)

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Jasmine123 · 29/05/2006 13:14

I've an adopted daughter of 9, I too hate it when she is labelled as my adopted daughter - she's simply my daughter!
Hard work, very difficult but oh so, so fantastic, I wouldn't have had it any other way.

Issyfit · 29/05/2006 13:31

Hi suejonez

I think all the adoption books I've read have been useful in one way or another. I particularly liked the Caroline Archer one because it explained the theory of attachment and failure to attach very well but was also very practical and constructive. To another poster's point about 'overload', it's the kind of book you could skim-read now and then go back to at different stages with your child.

All the best

Issymum/Issyfit

Rhubarb · 29/05/2006 13:32

I have 2 adopted brothers, altogether there are 6 of us in the family. My brothers are coloured/black/mixed race (I don't know which one I'm supposed to use!) but as far as we were concerned, they are as real to us as if they are our biological brothers. However other peoples attitude stinks. I get told that they are not my 'real' brothers, etc. My brother's wife is an ignorant cow and thinks that because he is adopted we don't count as his family so she never makes a special effort. My sister has also adopted two children and my s-i-l once referred to them as "the adopted ones".

Breaking down society's ignorance is often very hard to do!

Just a thought on international adopting. I used to work for a charity set up to help the abandoned children in China. We would never encourage international adoptions because we felt that these children needed to be adopted in their own country and kept with their own cultures. There is a spate of celebrity international adoptions atm and it has the air of "fashion accessory" about it. I'm not criticising those who are choosing to adopt from abroad, but I do hope you would consider adopting from this country first.

Rhubarb · 29/05/2006 13:33

I have 2 adopted brothers, altogether there are 6 of us in the family. My brothers are coloured/black/mixed race (I don't know which one I'm supposed to use!) but as far as we were concerned, they are as real to us as if they are our biological brothers. However other peoples attitude stinks. I get told that they are not my 'real' brothers, etc. My brother's wife is an ignorant cow and thinks that because he is adopted we don't count as his family so she never makes a special effort. My sister has also adopted two children and my s-i-l once referred to them as "the adopted ones".

Breaking down society's ignorance is often very hard to do!

Just a thought on international adopting. I used to work for a charity set up to help the abandoned children in China. We would never encourage international adoptions because we felt that these children needed to be adopted in their own country and kept with their own cultures. There is a spate of celebrity international adoptions atm and it has the air of "fashion accessory" about it. I'm not criticising those who are choosing to adopt from abroad, but I do hope you would consider adopting from this country first.

Issyfit · 29/05/2006 15:48

Rhubarb, I think it's generally accepted by inter-country adopters that they are the 'third best' option. The first best option for a child is to stay with a family who is willing and able to care for it, the second best option is to be adopted within its country and the third best option is to be adopted outside of its country. All those options, I believe, are better than staying in an institution. Some countries, like Korea, have already almost ceased inter-country adoption because its own domestic adoption has increased so markedly, in other countries such as Cambodia, whilst there is a lot of informal adoption within family or village groups, for children in institutions, those first and second best options just aren't there.

Rhubarb · 29/05/2006 16:19

I know, and I know lots of international children with very good homes who are loved, it's just a little bugbear of mine. I know celebs started a trend of adopting from abroad and since then the applications for little Chinese, Korean, etc babies is huge.

I would consider adoption myself but dh wouldn't. Sad

Issyfit · 29/05/2006 16:40

Rhubarb, as ever it's a balance between the good of the individual and the good of the many. I absolutely accept that if there were no inter-country adoption, then the host countries might feel more pressure to encourage domestic adoption. But that's a very big 'might', particularly when you take into account all the other pressing issues of a developing country and even then you are assuming that it's not a government entirely distracted by corruption and conflict. And while you wait for a 'good' government to clear all those issues and turn to domestic adoption, generations of children, who might have been adopted overseas, will have spent their entire childhood in an institution.

And after all that, some birth mothers, as DD1's (and possibly DD2's) did, might choose inter-country adoption for their child and I'm not sure that it isn't their right to do so.

suejonez · 29/05/2006 16:40

"There is a spate of celebrity international adoptions atm and it has the air of "fashion accessory" about it. I'm not criticising those who are choosing to adopt from abroad, but I do hope you would consider adopting from this country first."

I'm afraid I think you are criticising - how else would you describe the term "fashion accessory" if not loaded with criticism. I would also be interested in which UK celebrity you know who has adopted from overseas (I know of only two and one of those is a public figure but could hardly be described as a celebrity) and if you know how many parents adopted as a result of seeing any non-UK celebs adopting. I don't mean people who rang up and enquired but people who actually adopted. I know of several hundred adoptive parents and would be amazed if even a single one of them did it for the fashion value.

I would have been perfectly happy to adopt here and was told in no uncertain terms to forget it. I'm single, white and over 30. Plenty of mixed race children available but they will not match them with white single adopters.

Believe me Rhubarb, you are preaching to the choir here! With the training thats given prior to adopting and the attitude from the newspapers and general public, no adopters looking overseas are in any doubt what they are doing is difficult and, in general, frowned upon. The country I'm going to insists that all children are on the domestic register for 6 months prior to allowing them to be considered for an overseas placement (and I believe there are very few, if any countries that don't have a similar policy). Kazakh families are always given first opportunity to adopt and even if you are matched with a child, they could be placed with a local family right up until the point that the adoption is legalised.

I guess do I differ from you on one point, I don't believe that it is in the best interests of the child to stay in their birth country - or at least not unless they are going to be adopted locally. I believe (as does the Hague convention on this subject which Britain has signed) that it is the fundamental right of every child to have a family life. Most children growing up in institutions in developing countries (even those which have a good record of care) have no posessions of their own, they live in dormitory rooms of 10-20 children, they have no hope of privacy and very little hope of an education past 14-16. The rates of suicide of these children leaving care at 14-16 is incredibly high (don't have them to hand but I have seen the studies) and when you add to that the number which end up in petty crime and prostitution, it's heart-breaking.

It has taken me over two years to get to this point - I have been trained, criminal records checked, had references taken (work and personal), opened my finances up to all and sundry, been prodded by doctors, had my childhood and previous relationships dissected by complete strangers, paid in excess of £5000 to various UK government bodies and then had to appear before a panel of 12 people asking questions about my private life and judging whether I'm competent to parent. Believe me, I didn't do this on a whim because Angelina Jolie adopted a cute baby - it just doesn't work like that in the UK. There are approximately 300 intercountry adoptions in the UK every year and that includes adoptions by family members and the average adoption takes about 2.5 years to complete. It's not exactly a stampede. France and Spain with not dissimilar populations adopt about 3000 children per annum from overseas.

My children will be Kazakh citizens until they are 18 and will then be able to choose for themselves whether to keep that citizenship. I have already set up a group of parents and arranged meetings with the kazakh embassy, trips to kazkah events and am planning a russian/kazakh baby and toddler group. I will of course take tehm back to their birth country as many times as I can afford and they want to go. Not as good as being brought up there, but on the upside - they will have a mummy who loves them and tucks them in at night, who reads them bedtime stories and kisses their grazes better. I will check their homework and fight for any help they might need in school and will do my best to make sure that they are proud of both cultures that made them.

Sorry to labour the point, but you're not the first person to express their opinion to me on this (and no doubt won't be the last) and I've moved from acquiescence to rebellion.

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Issyfit · 29/05/2006 16:46

A very eloquent post suejonez and every time I have a wobble about inter-country adoption tucking my children in at night brings a re-newed clarity!

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