Experiences of adoption from overseas

[LunaMoona]

A brand new category - can I be the first to post ?

I wondered what experiences people have (if any) of adopting children from overseas. It looks mighty difficult but wondered what positive/negative experiences you have had ?

Yes also loved the definitions ! Well done suejonez - also remember how exciting this step was and how much more real it suddenly became - although it did still took quite a while before bringing our daughter home it felt as though we had left these shores at last!!

I'm finding it very difficult to concentrate at the moment - I'm trying not to panic that this strange hobby I have of collecting lots of bits of paper might actually turn into something real. Its almost and out of body experience! I have to sit down this weekend and work out exactly what I need to do over the next three months - all my paperwork is beginning to expire and all needs redoing, I need to check what final things I need for nursery etc, need to create nursery out of the room I have always superstitiously referd to as the "study". I still can;t help thinking that I'm tempting fate if I turn it into a nursery too soon.

Hi Sue - have been following your story on and off. Many congratulations so far and pleased keep us posted. I'm so excited for you!!

BTW it is quite normal for all expectant mothers however their children arrive to feel like you are feeling at the moment. Until ds was put in my arms I felt as if I was playing a sort of make -believe game (like playing with dolls as a kid) and it was a really terrifying moment when the make believe suddenly turned in to a real person squalling in my arms. And just because I gave birth to him it didn't mean I was instantly bonded with him or 'in love' with him. That feeling grew slowly and wonderfully as i got to know him.

Hope the feelings are wonderful for you too.

Very kind of you to say that simmy - I hear stories of birth mothers who don;t instantly bond with their babies but it happens over time for some but was beginning to think this mother was afbales creature like a unicorn as no-one I know seems prepared to admit they felt like that!

Glad the sense of unreality is normal too!

The note about bonding reminds me that I'm giving a talk to a group of prospective inter-country adoptive parents (as they are known!) in a couple of weeks time. I've been asked to talk as somebody's who done it and is now five years in. I gave the same talk last year and I think I started off by saying that there is an enormous expectation that adoptive parents, now that they have their child, will be 'happy ever after'. But adoptive parents should resist this pressure: adoption is fabulous but all babies are, intermittently, exhausting, frustrating and boring and all small children are, intermittently, exhausting, frustrating, boring and annoying and the fact that you waited for years, climbed mountains of paperwork and crossed half the world to get your child, doesn't mean that you will be any less exhausted, bored, frustrated or annoyed than a birth parent. And bonding can take a long while - days, weeks even months.

Are you doing it at the IAC? Keep an eye out for any KAz adopters - I think there's one couple due on a course soon.

I think that must contribute significantly to post adoption depression, that sense that you've wanted it so much for so long that it must be perfect when it happens. I spend a good part of everyday thinking about the realities rather than the teeny, tiny shoes that are so cute! I was shattered coming into work this morning as I hadn't slept well and wke up at 6am (and I'm not a morning person anyway) and I thought - must get used to this... (why does it annoy me when people say that but I don't mind thinking it myself!)

No, I'm just doing it in Guildford as part of the Surrey preparation course. I completely agree about post-adoption depression. For some reason I was at least fairly realistic about what having a baby would be like. Probably something to do with my sister having 5 of them!

I haven't adopted but would just like to say that it took me ages to bond with both of my children. With dd I reckon it was up to about 12 weeks. I was beginning to think there was something wrong with me and then it just happened ! I can imagine the process will be similiar if you are adopting so be prepared for a period of adjustment - it happens to us all !

If you believe most american adoption groups - everyone falls in love instantly with their child. Thankfully I have one very sensible friend who said she didn't feel like that about her children when she first met them but she did feel that she was able to parent them (she adopted two older kids) and felt a sense of responsibility toward them and trusted that the rest would grow from there. It did and two years later she has two lovely kids 8 and 9 who are completely different to the idealised image she had of who her children would be but somehow it all worked out for the best. Or did she just work at it...?

This is interesting because if we ever decided we wanted a second child we would adopt - and possible from abroad. We were thinking of Russia area, has anyone experience of this?

Plus I DON'T want a baby (I prefer toddlers onwards) so is there a hard and afast rule about birht order? ie if I wanted to adopt a little girl between 2 and 4 would I need to wait until DS was over 4?

Riab - yes , Uk authorities are pretty strict. They woudl probably want to wait uttil your child was 5 befroe they woudl start assessing you. So child woudl be 6 os so when you got another child, who coudl be up to 4. ut each agency has its own rules and soem are more felixible.Need to ask.

Also you woudl need to work out how you and your family coudl meet the needs of a russian speaking , institutionalised four year old.

Sue - many congratulations on your dossier going out. You obviously except to get a referral reallyt soon? What age / sex are you approved fro ?

soory for bad typing - baby on lap

Kristina,

If we did it It would be like anything else important. We would prepare as much as possible. We are going to sponsor a child in russia to learn a bit more about that area. We would try and learn a bit of russian too, but I would expect that a 2-4 yr old would start to pick up english once they became part of our family, I'd work with them the same way you do with any child who is learning to use a language.

Regarding the insitutionalised part of it, what do you think would be the issues?

See I was thinking what would be ideal would be when DS is 4/5 to adopt a YOUNGER child (3/4) so that I had time during the day to spend one on one wiht the new sibling while DS was at school. (and yes I would expect to take 2-3 months off)

I'm approved to adopt a child 0-2yrs either sex, so I'll probably get a boy and most likely between 8- 15 months).

I looked into adopting for Russia but in the end decided against it primarily due to the extremely variable quality of the orphanages - some are Ok some are truly dreadful. If you're going for an older toddler you could be dealing with some very challenging institutional behaviours, on the other hand, probably many of them would to some degree be showing so you could assess how difficult they are. that isn't necessarily a reason not to adopt but to need to be clear about teh issues you may face.

Bulgaria will allow the adoption of children over 2 yrs old and I think (but haven't looked into it a great deal) that the care there is more consistent. I think Kazakhstan has excellent institutions (if there is such a thing) - but then I would say that wouldn;t I!

Some council will let you start early so that there is an appropriate age between your children. So for example they may let you apply when yours is 4yrs old, knowing that it will take you at least 2 years to bring a child home. it varies by council I think. Also the age recommendation by panel is now only a recommendation (since Jan this year) so ages aren't so fixed on stone anymore.

KristinaM - fingers crossed I'm hoping to travle by late Spetmeber but won;t know until a month before.

Wow, Rioab, I don?t know where to start?.these are HUGE HUGE issues. I honestly think you need to do a LOT of reading and research about post institutionalised children before you even THINK about adopting an older child from an institution abroad. There is masses of stuff on the web. Like here

PNPIC

ATTACH

For example, regarding language, any child you adopt would probably be language & developmentally delayed. so its not like you and your family moving to France and your child going to French nursery and picking it up, because they would use their English as a framework.

Regarding your time off post placeemnt, you would need to see if you could find an agency who would be willing to approve you if you were only willing to take 2-3 months off, then go back to work ( I assume). This is pretty unusual. I don?t know how any child would cope. I think you would be setting yourself up for serious problems later. Please understand, this is not about ?working mothers?. It?s about how best to meet the needs of such a traumatised and damaged child.

Sorry, I know I must sound like I?m trying to put you off. I?m not. I just think you need to go into this with your eyes open or you could blow your family apart.

oh and congrats Sue, that's great news. you must be excited now its all so close. How many trips do you have to make? When will you be able to bring your son home?

If you are any where near Barnet the Intercountry Adoption Centre does a one day consultation course for people considering overseas adoption, that would give you a head start on understanding the issues.

I forgot thsi site

EEAC

You want to get yourselves on one of the relevant mailing lists. Its like mumsnet - you will hear it like it is from other parenst / waiting families

Riab - i'm afraid its up to families to educate themselves about adoption and prepare themselves fro parenting the child. After only a few weeks of reading you will knwo more than your average social worker. they only get a few hours training on adoption in their whole careers, let alone overseas adoption.

If you look around the threads you will see how much Sue has done to reaearch things and how long she has been preparing for her child. Its not like being a mum to a home grown child - you cant just ask your friends and family. Also a lot of good adoptive parenting is counter intuitive

Please don't think I was being flippant or niave and assuming it would be straightforward. When I asked 'what issues' I was hoping someone could give some specific instances/research of mental/developmental/emotional/physical additional needs for adopted children aged 2-5 from russia or similar areas.

Of course an adoptee will require time and attention, all children do. I actually think having the assumption that the adoptee would be a traumatised and damaged child is just as dangerous.

Numerous studies have shown that our assumptions about events/people influence how the event/person turns out. If I assume a child (whether a birth child or adoptee) will generally be happy and reasonable quick to adjust they are more likely to fulfil that. If I assume the adoptee is 'damaged' and that they are so different to my birth child at that age I need to make special arrangements then I am unconsciuosly setting the adoptee up to manifest behaviours which support the label of damaged and different.

Feed em, love em, be there for em, offer stability and routine, don't push my ideas and values onto them, let them grow and develop at their own pace and in their own direction.

Don't sideline their need for time/attention. Make them part of your life not an add-on, and don't burden them with negatives whether that be the state of dads job or the fact that they were a 'difficult' birth or a 'damaged' adoptee.

"Please don't think I was being flippant or niave and assuming it would be straightforward."

I didnt. Its just there is enought to fill hundreds of books and thousnads of webpages - i wouldnt knwo wher to start.

" When I asked 'what issues' I was hoping someone could give some specific instances/research of mental/developmental/emotional/physical additional needs for adopted children aged 2-5 from russia or similar areas. "

There are journals full of such research out there. i hope you will find lots of useful info on teh links I gave.Just as a starting point

"Of course an adoptee will require time and attention, all children do. I actually think having the assumption that the adoptee would be a traumatised and damaged child is just as dangerous. "

I'm sorry, i think you will find that thsi statement is factually accurate. Any child taken away from all it has ever known by complete strangers and flown to the other side of the world will be tramatised. Its like being abducted by aliens.

i cannot imagine how you can think that any child spending 3-4 years in an institution, however good, will not be damaged. Thsi woudl be true of the BEST home in the uk, let alone elsewhere!!

They will be very different in many ways from your birth child.Yes, you will need to make different "arrangements" because they will have different needs.

These are not self fulfiling prophecies, they are facts. Like you, i wish that things were different, but they are not.Yes, you need to hope for the best. But prepare for the worst.

All children adopted from institutions overseas should in my view be viewed as having a degree of special needs. Not necessarily permanent but they often need a different approach to parenting as KristinaM says.

On average you can expect developmental delays of one month for every three months the child stays in the institution, so quite often children of 12 months are only just sitting, sometimes not crawling and very rarely standing or walking. They are weaned young and fed on starchy food with very little in the way of fruit or vegetables so can often suffer form conditions such as rickets. They have very little or no individual attention resulting in poor bonding and attachment which can manifest itself not only in behavioural problems but also in permanently reduced growth. Language and motor development skills are the most severely affected areas of development in severe maternal deprivation.

In addition health problems commonly include foetal alcohol syndrome (very high risk in Russia), tuberculosis, HIV, Hepatitis, giardia, lead poisoning and low iodine causing low thyroid function.

It is estimated that 20-25% of the children suffer from some degree of permanent behavioural or learning problems and as many as 80% have temporary health, learning or behavioural problems.

There is a mass of literature and studies on the effects of institutional life children and most (all?) of them conclude that the most likely age at which the child if subsequently treated correctly will recover is 2yrs. I think that why Kristina is urging you to research as much as you can. There are many succesful toddler and older child adoptions but you shouldn't think it will be like adopting a four year old raised in a family, because it probably won't. For example I know of one family who adopted a toddler from China and the wife was expecting to back to work after 3 months but the child screamed incessantly if she couldn't see her mother all the time. She had attached to her mother and was then terrified that someone would take her away again like she was taken from the orphanage. It was two years before she could be left for long enough periods for her mum to go back to work.

You might want to start by reading "First steps in parenting The child who hurts: Tiddlers and Toddlers - Jessica Kingsley" There are many books and studies - I have a file full of reference materials, if you want any more reading suggestions, give me an idea of what you want and I'll suggest something.

Sorry just wanted to add, (after that marathon post!) that obviously not every child has every problem and some have relatively minor special needs but you won't know in advance which category your child will be in.

I have chosen a country where the standard of care is considerd to be good but we were told repeatedly on our preparation course - there is no such thing as a good institution.

Well I can give some examples of the trauma in the early stages of our lives with our children. We brought them home from a reasonably good orphanage with high standards of care BUT.............one of our daughters was very attached to her carer - a good thing (see attachment theory) but that meant she did not want to come with us back to our hotel (and who could blame her) so we had one very distressed little girl to contend with in the early stages. In addition she would not go anywhere near my husband - her only experience of men was doctors and she had had much sometimes painful medical treatment. she really didn't like the food we gave her initially despite being able to replicate what she had been used to. I stayed there for many weeks and assisted with food prep in the nursery.
Neither child had any experience of being strapped in anywhere hence the first few car journeys were a bit of a nightmare!
Actually they didn't much care for pampers either as they had very thin cotton nappies in the orphanage. Since the staff worked all night they were only too pleased if babies awoke for a feed - they were usually underweight and one more feed was a good thing. Of course this meant that they woke usually many more times in the night that friends children of the same age! Our second daughter was initially very jealous of our first - once she had decided I was OK after all she certainly didn't want to share me with her sister!
Others have reported night terrors being quite common. I really couldn't have contemplated returning to work until after a year - we wanted them to bond with us and this did happen quite quickly - they were not keen to have anyone else patting them to sleep, feeding them etc etc
In the longer term we have I think had many more appts with a range of medical professionals than most of my friends with birth children. We have also had I think more educational issues to deal with. We do though have the 2 most fantastic children anyone could ever wish to have but as you can see we had to deal with many issues which do not normally arise with birth children!

Well I can give some examples of the trauma in the early stages of our lives with our children. We brought them home from a reasonably good orphanage with high standards of care BUT.............one of our daughters was very attached to her carer - a good thing (see attachment theory) but that meant she did not want to come with us back to our hotel (and who could blame her) so we had one very distressed little girl to contend with in the early stages. In addition she would not go anywhere near my husband - her only experience of men was doctors and she had had much sometimes painful medical treatment. she really didn't like the food we gave her initially despite being able to replicate what she had been used to. I stayed there for many weeks and assisted with food prep in the nursery.
Neither child had any experience of being strapped in anywhere hence the first few car journeys were a bit of a nightmare!
Actually they didn't much care for pampers either as they had very thin cotton nappies in the orphanage. Since the staff worked all night they were only too pleased if babies awoke for a feed - they were usually underweight and one more feed was a good thing. Of course this meant that they woke usually many more times in the night that friends children of the same age! Our second daughter was initially very jealous of our first - once she had decided I was OK after all she certainly didn't want to share me with her sister!
Others have reported night terrors being quite common. I really couldn't have contemplated returning to work until after a year - we wanted them to bond with us and this did happen quite quickly - they were not keen to have anyone else patting them to sleep, feeding them etc etc
In the longer term we have I think had many more appts with a range of medical professionals than most of my friends with birth children. We have also had I think more educational issues to deal with. We do though have the 2 most fantastic children anyone could ever wish to have but as you can see we had to deal with many issues which do not normally arise with birth children!