Is possible for a married couple to place a child for adoption in the UK?

[jay002]

I'm actually asking this question on of my sister in law. She's expecting and her and my brother never planned to have children and aren't really capable of looking after a child. They decided to look into adoption a only to find out that in Ireland a married couple cant give their baby up for adoption. Their only choice is to keep the baby or put it in foster care. She's devastated at this and absolutely doesn't want the child to end up in care. Is it possible for a married couple to put a child up for adoption in the UK? I wouldn't think they'd be able to do it from here in Ireland but if they moved over to England would it even be possible or are the laws similar to here?

Does anyone know what the Irish policy is on surrogacy? i.e, egg donor, incubator?

chelstonmum I think you can take it that if a surrogate mum (incubator, as you put it) is a married woman then the baby will fall under the family rule maryz has already explained. If she is a single woman, then she has the right to give up her parental rights to the baby.

Egg donating - much more tricky to work out!

Thanks, I realise it was not really relevant to the post, I was just curious having read the legal issues surrounding adoption. What a sad situation.

My friend, living in Ireland, has been a fostercarer for a number a years, she has two long term foster children for 8 & 10 years repectively, the eldest parents wanted her to be adopted but it was refused as they were married. Luckily,the whole family have accepted them as part of the family, and have recently recieved the same inheritance as their cousin from their 'adopted' grandmother. Taking them to Disneyland, 5 years ago, was a long long story!!!!

I have a friend from Ireland who was the middle of a family of about 5, iirc. Her father was an abusive drunk and she and her younger siblings were moved out to different Sacred Heart orphanage/boarding school places. She didn't see her family AT ALL from the age of 10 until 15, when she was turfed out of the 'school'. But she had nowhere to go! She tried to go back home but they were all relative strangers, she didn't fit in - so she went back to the 'school' to see if she could work there. She was utterly displaced! I don't know if it would have been any different had she been somewhere other than Ireland but certainly her experience wasn't a good one. Not sure that is entirely relevant but I thought it helped to show how the system lets the teenagers down.

maryz - there are all sorts of legal tangles and messes: for example, as a gay couple you cannot use a known donor through a clinic (you can do this in the UK, with various conditions about screening which is fair enough). So if you want your child to know its father you either DIY, or pretend that you are a couple...all the things that you have outlined so articulately in relation to children in long-term foster care also apply to the relationship between a non-biological mother and her child (i.e. me). There are two key differences I think though - 1. however important it is to me, children in my DD's situation with regard to one of her parents are a small (but growing) number and 2. very few of them have had the traumatic and fractured lives that the children you are talking about have had.

Nonetheless, it does keep me awake at night that I have no legal relationship to DD and what would happen in the event of DP's death. I might be allowed to adopt her - more likely I would be granted legal guardianship which would expire when she came of age - she would therefore have to pay vast inheritance tax on her family home if DP predeceased me.

I kind of agree about the Constitution...I'm fortunate that my DP's family would never do that to me or to DD, but the point is that I have to rely on their trust and goodwill (and that of DD's father and his family - which I am less sure of, just because I don't know them as well). It's crazy that what seems to me to be most desirable for DD (e.g. that she know her father and have a relationship with his) is the most legally risky thing for us to do. Nuts.

The Law Commission's report on guardianship did recommend (just before Christmas) that legal guardianship be extended to civil partners. I would like to adopt her - which would just be formalising the actual relationship I have to her. It isn't going to happen any time soon and we may simply move to the UK. But doing that takes DD away from her family and the world she knows.

But this thread is about something else, and I should stop hijacking. For a society that professes to care about families, though, Ireland is strangely cruel when it comes to crunch issues.

My cousins have just adopetd a baby who was put up for adoption by married parents from an EU country - not sure which - who were living in England. They gave their child up for adoption because they were both students and felt that a more settled couple could offer their child a better future as they did not yet feel ready. The adoption followed the standard local authority process.

driving, the first thing my obs secretary asked me when I phoned to book him was, was I having the nuchal scan. No probing questions. I am 42 though.

Agree with Maryz, the constitution is a dinosaur document and needs to be re-written from scratch.

jay002 - although you probrably won't see this post, but I was wondering how your sister is coping with the situation. She has been on my mind.

Coo - this thread is going a bit awry. There have been lots of posts about citizenship (and I confess to not having sufficient knowledge about this to comment) but Maryz certainly knows the situation in Ireland (as in the republic) and now the debate has moved to surrogacy. I am heartily relieved that Melvin has gone away - he has a terrific axe to grind about adoption, and he does talk nonsense.

I have 30 years experience as a social worker and tm mgr of a Fostering & Adoption team in a LA, been retired since 2004 but worked as an independent social worker till 2010. Clearly I am talking about the UK (including N Ireland)

1. It is possible for a mother, or a married couple to advise the LA that they wish to relinquish their unborn child for adoption.

1. Yes the LA will want to discuss the matter in some depth with the parents to ensure that they really see no alternative to relinquishing their child for adoption. They will in all probability stress that there can be significant repercussions for parents who relinquish their child at birth, sometimes causing distress for one or both of them throughout the life span.

1. However if the parents are adamant then the LA will make arrangements for a short term foster care to care for the child from birth. Of course the parents have every right to change their mind once the baby is born. If they are still adamant then the child will be placed with the foster carer (which will have been pre-arranged)

1. At this point the parents will retain the Parental Responsibility for the child, but since they are not wanting to retain PR, by virtue of the fact that they are relinquishing the child.

1. The child needs to have someone who has PR and therefore the LA can apply for an Emergency Protection Order, from a Magistrates Court. This application should not be ex parte (in the sense that parents should be present to put their side of the case) which is wholly right in my view. In this case the parents could attend the court where the LA will make an application, and advise that they are relinquishing their child. In such a case an EPO will be granted, giving PR to the local authority. EPOs are time limited (I think 7 days) which gives the LA the time to get the matter before the Family Proceedings Court, to request an ICO (Interim Care Order) which means that the PR remains with the LA.

1. A relinquished child is quite unusual though certainly not unheard of (I recall a woman who was married, relinquishing 5 children in the space o about 7 or 8 years! Usually the birth parents will be fighting the LA to get the child back and the ICO will give time for all the necessary assessments to be undertaken by a variety of professionals. The ICOs can be renewed every 28 days until the final hearing.

1. In this case there won't be any assessments, so the LA can go to court to request a Placement Order (which means that the child is freed for adoption) and once placed with approved adoptors it is a simple matter of the prospective adoptors going to court (in front of a judge in chambers) for him or her to make the Adoption Order. It is a formality really because the Court has already made the Placement Order. Most judges are very nice with the children and give them a little book or a few sweets and then the adoptive parents usually have photos taken on the steps of the court and celebrate that they are now parents

1. The birth parents will be asked if they have any particular wishes about placement, I think religion is one of them and their wishes will be considered

though are not legaly binding as they no longer hold PR. They will also be given the opportunty to meet the adoptors and this can be quite a fraught meeting especially if it is birth parents who have been fighting for their child to be returned to their care. Most adoptors say they were glad of the opportunity of meeting the birth parents. They often ask permission to take a photo of the birth parents for the child's Life Story Book, but that is another issue.

I think some rather pejorative terms have been used, such as abandoning the baby in hospital, and not being honest with the LA, and finding an adoptor for themselves via charities etc., none of which are helpful in my view. As I said arrangements will be made for the sw to collect the baby from hospital to the home of the foster carer. The parents have the right to join the sw and meet the foster carers. As many people have pointed out private adoption is illegal in this country, and charities cannot make applications to the court to have PR transferred to them from the birth parents.

Think that's it....

Me again - forgot to say that the birth parents have the right to change their mind at any time before the final hearing and the making of the Placement Order. I agree legal advice in the UK would be helpful to them.

I know nothing about the laws in Ireland, but do have to say how refreshing it is to hear of parents who understand that they cannot give their child the best in life and therefore willing (not forced) to find their child a much better, secure and happier home!

It certainly can't be an easy decision to make.

And what is the alternative? To keep an unwanted child, make it's life a misery through feeling unwanted, having to live with feeling like that child is a burden on your life and perhaps even abusing them through anger and frustration of the situation and therefore creating another human being who will suffer a lifetime of immense pain and possibly even continue the same cycle....

There are many parents out there who really should be doing the exact same thing in my opinion!