Forced Adoption

[Syd35]

Hi, I'm new to this and wanted to talk about this upsetting situation. Where to start...I will try to make this long story as brief as possible...
My sister's little boy was taken into care a while back due to her drinking and drug use although she always made sure the little one was well looked after. What we thought was a temporary thing has turned into a long drawn out nightmare. The social services are now trying to place him for adoption against her will. My sister dearly wants to be given a chance but the social services are not interested and she hasn't been given any support, just talked down to and belittled. None of the family are in a position to help and I would love to take the child on but my husband is not on board with it so I haven't been able to pursue. I was able to visit him recently and can see he is a very sad and confused child. He loves his mum to bits and they have a lovely bond and it was heart-breaking to hear his foster carer telling him "when you go to your new mummy and daddy". I think it's heartless to tell a young child who is clearly missing his mother that they will be going to a new family. I cannot forget the sadness in his eyes as we said goodbye. Yes my sister has done silly things but she is still young and keeping her away from her child is destroying her. I hate the way SS have handled the whole thing and told lies and had no compassion. They have far too much power and are playing with people's lives. I don't know how they can sleep at night. I understand they have to protect children but how many times have they got it wrong? I am sure with the right support my sister can turn things around but I fear time is running out. Has anyone had a similar experience or any advice?

Maryz - I think you are right to try to bring this thread back to Syd's problems. I hope you don't think I'm splitting hairs but Syd would not be approved to care for her nephew in any circumstances, given that her H is not in agreement. I think in any event that the final hearing has taken place when the judge makes the decision about the child's future and it sounds to me as though the judge has granted a Placement Order to the LA that means the child can be placed or adoption. The adoptors then have to go to court for the adoption order, but that is really just a formality.

Think you are right that all we can do is to empathise with Syd and hope that over time she will feel more settled in the knowledge that the child will be being cared for in a way that will best meet his needs.

Syd thanks for keeping us informed. I hope you are feeling better. I really do recommend keeping a journal of your feelings. It may help you in the future to feel good about your concern for your nephew, the way you have tried to be of help, even listening to all our talk as part of your concern. Certainly some people have said some very helpful things on here and it may help in the future to just remember things.

Keep in touch if it helps you.

This might be of interest to Syd or anyone else involved in these proceedings who needs to know more about the legal system. Syd needs to be reassured that her sister would have got good quality and committed legal representation - these cases are not brought to court or decided on a whim and we don't simply bow down to LA wishes.

Its research from the University of Bristol which I hope even JH would accept is a respectable source.

www.familylawweek.co.uk/site.aspx?i=ed81746

Spero Thank you for posting the Bristol University care proceedings report. I will peruse it as and when I have time to do so.

thanks wasthat etc.

I know that people have very bruising and traumatic encounters with the care system and that it strikes at the very soul of what it means to be a parent.

But I do worry about people who only know a little, or know what their family have chosen to tell them, and come on threads like this and get fed all sorts of information. We all have to be alert to the fact that we all sometimes see only what we want to see or what suits our prejudices.

I am aware of that and try to factor it into all that I do. I honestly do not think there is any risk that I am a pawn in the system or a LA lap dog. I proceed with cases on my analysis of the facts and the law; that is the one real strength of laywers who may be paid for by the State but who are independent of the State. The Gov has to keep on paying me, even if I disagree with it but domestic and international law tells them to. I honestly do not recognise the family law system that the 'forced adoption' et al websites describe.

Perhaps all I can say to anyone in this situation is - act immediately if you are worried about a child. Get legal advice asap if you want to be considered as a carer. Please don't think the court system is out to snatch children or that all social workers are either automatically corrupt or incompetent.

And take what you read on the internet with a big grain of salt.

i had both my children taken and put up for adoption simply because i had mild depression and the social worker watched a tv program about men who kill their children then commit suicide. i've never harmed any child and never will. the social worker could have put support in place if that's what they thought i needed but they just want to have my children adopted. i have since learned that the whole "forced adoption" system is not about the welfare of the children but about how much money the solicitors, psychologists, independant social workers, guardians, foster carers to name but a few can make before the magistrates force the adoption through. i have seen the legal aid forms and a psychologist made £9000 just to have a chat for half an hour, and another £9000 for chatting to my wife. and independant social worker who made £6000 just for writing a report about what she has read in the social workers report.
the whole system is corrupt from the lazy lying social worker right up to the "i believe everything the social worker says" magistrates.

my children always asked if they could come home but were ignored. i hope they take all the people who made money out of destroying our family to court when they are old enough because i have been told "your legal aid will not stretch that far. how will you pay for it?"

just to add to that. not all social workers are lazy and tell lies, we've had some very good social workers over the years who have been helpful and supportive.

p4u1 - I'm sure there are people who on here who can give you better advise than I can. Perhaps you could start a new thread for support as I'm not sure your position is very applicable to Syd who started this one.

Mumsnet adoptions normally are a very supportive board on the whole rather than the battle field it has become in recent weeks. I'm sure if you hang around and make more than one post you will get some some good advise and support from others.

p4ul so sorry to hear your story and I don't mind that you've tagged it onto my thread at all. I am always interested in hearing about other cases.

I do hope you are able to challenge this and get the help you need. Sounds like another case of over zealous social workers sticking their noses in. Something does need to be done about them ripping families apart. We are talking about peoples lives here and it's a disgrace.

Update on my nephew - he has been adopted finally and we have no details except to say there can be "post box contact" twice a year. I am wondering about who his adoptive parents are, how he has settled in and imagine he must be feeling quite bewildered, he only ever wanted to go home with mummy. I hope he will adjust and settle quickly and we can all reunite when he is older.

Good luck Syd. I hope things work out well for your nephew and that your sister gets the help she needs and that you are able to maintain some contact.

I don't think I have any useful contribution left here so will sign off now.

I wish you the best Syd, and hope good contact can be kept up, and I hope you find some peace :)

If what Pu41 says is true, he has a copper bottomed case for appeal. Even a baby barrister, qualified five mins, could have torn that LA case apart.

Sadly, I suspect there is rather more going on in that case then is contained in a brief summary.

I don't wish to ever belittle the pain that families go through when a child is taken from their care, but I can't say anymore or link to anymore to try and reassure others going thru this that this system is NOT a corrupt cess pit.

Some parents can't parent. I am proud to live in a country where we want to protect children and recognise their fundamental right to grow up safe and healthy. They are not the possessions of their family. 'Family' doesn't trump everything.

But debates like this over the internet are so depressing and so hopeless because all those who 'believe' the system is corrupt do so quite genuinely. But I worry that someone who is about to go into the system will read stuff like this and be unnecessarily terrified.

If Syd reads the Bristol research, hopefully she will be reassured that her sister got proper robust representation and the right thing was done for her nephew, however hard it feels now to accept.

Sorry Syd cus I don't want to detract from your post but I must endorse what Spero has said about PU41's post. As for the amounts of money he quotes that is paid to the professionals, this is simply ludicrous. I don't know what he means by "seeing the legal aid forms" and knowing that these sorts of costs are involved. I don't know what psychologists are paid, nor lawyers, but as an independent social worker I can say quite definitely that I was paid £1,200 for assessing foster carers/adoptors and that entailed around 6 visits to applicants, 2 visits to referees, liaison with all the professionals involved and writing the report which could take up to 20 hours, and then a half day at the LA fostering panel.

I did also do ISW parenting assessments for court via an agency and I was paid £35.00 per hour, and I don't this is excessive. I can assure PU that on average I would receive around £1,500 for these cases. Mind the agency I worked for did very well out of it. These figures of psychologists being paid £18,000 per case is ridiculous. CGs are paid around £30 an hour too.

I promise I won't respond to Pu again because I realise this is detracting from the thread, although Syd sadly you have come to the end of the road with your nephew, and hope that you will have some good support over the coming months when you are bound to be feeling very low.

Thanks NanaNina, I'm starting to come to terms with it now. It has been dragging for so long, that in a way, I'm almost relieved it's come to a conclusion so we can try to move on. My sister hasn't opened up much about how she's feeling and ends up getting defensive when I try to talk to her about things but I imagine she's hurting really bad. I've found it helpful to share my thoughts on here albeit "with a crowd of strangers on the internet" as Maryz recently put it - and Maryz I hope your son manages to turns things around, I know what you must be going through.

Also want to thank those of you who have followed my thread - kewcumber, Maryz, Italiangreyhound, hester, Lilka and others, even melvin/whoever who I think was trying to be helpful even if he's rubbed others up the wrong way!

Syd, you sound like such a lovely lady. I really hope you and your sister can find some peace, and that your nephew is settling well with a loving and wise family who can guide him through the years ahead.

Pu41, I feel odd about responding to you on Syd's thread, but will happily do so if you want to start another thread. All best.

Syd really wish you all the best for the future, and for your sister and your nephew. He will all always be your nephew and he will always be your sister's birth child. I really do hope your sister can turn things around, and I agree with maryz that it would be good for her to be the birth month that your nephew can be proud of. One day I feel sure he will make contact again with her, and you; I hope you will both be able to have that relationship with him then.

You have shown yourself to be a very caring person and I hope that you can now have some peace about this whole situation.

God Bless you and your wider family.

I will try and look in from time to time if you ever feel the need to talk.

birth mother not birth month! Sorry Syd it's late and I'm dozy!

When I said he will make contact with you, I meant via your sister, although maybe if you have left a letter on record for him then he may contact you - I'm not an adopter and so not sure how it works.

All the best.

Syd, as a retired social worker I have to say that, strangely, the profession do not have a culture where the deep bond felt by a child to its mother, and then to the extended family is taken into account enough. I seldom met a child who did not wish to live with their parents or other family members, often despite quite dreadful circumstances. I also taught social work practice in a college and was often considered out on a limb when I said what I found to be true regarding these matters. It seems to me that the efforts and resources (incl money) should be put into supporting families to stay together. There are few wealthy families where forced adoptions take place. Just another thing, not widely known - many adoptions are not permanent - they 'break down' and children end up back in the merrygoround of care facilities. Adoption is not the golden panacea that is imagined and can detroy whole families in one fell swoop. I am not in any way underestimating the difficulties of addiction and all that you have so honestly described. Just want to say bless you for your love and concern for this little boy and his mum. I do hope you are given the chance to keep in touch with him - it could be his emotional lifeline. With much love x

Eilum..... I am wondering why, for your first post on MN you choose to reserect an old thread to tell us we are all about to destroy our whole family be adopting. We are aware of the percentage of adoptions that break down, but it is not a huge number.
I feel very patronised by your post.

The other day there was a little girl on breakfast tv, she was 8 and said she just wished the social workers had cared more about getting her away from her awful home life and into a normal family than trying to keep her dysfunctional family together! That from an 8 year old!

I work in CAMHS and see the result of kids brought up by addicts and its not pretty, the damage is everlasting, lots go on to be addicts themselves or make bad choices at an early age to get away or end up being the parent, an awful responsibility to have to take on!

SW rarely take kids away and when they do more often than not it is for a good reason, their first responsibility is to the child and it us an awful situation for your sister to be in but even on methadone she is still an addict, just to a legal form of the drug she was addicted to.

As much as you love your nephew you must understand that being with a drug free loving family is much better than having to cope with the uncertainty of what having an addict as a mother brings.

I don't think either social workers or adoptive parents see adoption as a 'golden panacea'. In fact, preparation for adoption is pretty much a dripfeed of everything that could possibly go wrong.

Having said that, adoption has given me a wonderful daughter, and has given her parents who love her, a warm safe home, books and toys, stability and security - none of which have ever been possible for her birth siblings. Whatever the future brings, I can't believe that won't set her up for life better than the alternative. Sometimes, when we're being 'realistic' about adoption, we forget that.

Eilum - I find it really hard to believe you were a social worker to be honest.

"I seldom met a child who did not wish to live with their parents or other family members, often despite quite dreadful circumstances." - this isn't news to anyone surely and can't possibly be a reason to keep children in "dreadful circumstances". I don't think there is a legal basis for removing a child because a parent doesn't love them enough, but as is so often quoted at adoptive paretns and its equally true of birth parents "love is not enough".

"I do hope you are given the chance to keep in touch with him - it could be his emotional lifeline" I'm very pro birth family contact but "emotional lifeline" - a bit dramatic.