Need to talk about adopted daughter

[Just13moreyearstogo]

Hi everyone. I have three children - two biological sons and one adopted daughter, who is 5.5 and came to us aged 2.8. She had a difficult start in life but was with a stable foster family, has attached well to us and is doing well in school. She has friends and at first glance people would have no idea about her background. So far, so good.

This morning though I am feeling very very low and have a sense of desolation about the summer holidays starting. The reason is that last night she had one of her monumental tantrums. These now happen about once a week, maybe less, whereas when she first came to us they were a daily occurrence. She unloads all her rage on to me, screaming, crying, yelling. It happens when she's tired, but not only then. The general trigger is that she can't have something she wants and she explodes. I have been seeing a counsellor and have learned to stay calm, I've learned how to - eventually - calm her down. My mistake last night was to not intervene when she was still simmering - I let her boil over into rage and then paid the price. After I got her to bed I lay on my bed thinking unspeakable thoughts about her, berating myself for putting myself through being an adoptive parent and making my life so unnecessarily difficult etc etc. I'm committed to her, DH is supportive but works long hours so there is no alternative to just rolling up my sleeves and getting on with it.

I was just wondering whether other adoptive parents get these really bleak times when they wonder why on earth they adopted in the first place when it's often such a struggle? How do I talk myself around and find the energy I need to get through the holidays?

And although the rages are down to about once a week there is an awful lot of low-level moaning, complaining and dissatisfaction, coupled with an almost constant need to talk and be talked to so she is quite a tiring little girl to look after. She is only just starting to be able to amuse herself for a bit. Watching TV will keep her quiet but I don't like to use that too much!

This may be nothing at all to do with her early life- my dd never stops talking, and tantrums regularly- I think some 5yo are just prone to it.

You have my sympathies though, it is difficult when they behave like this, but unspeakable thoughts need to remain unsaid.

All you can do is reassure her, keep the boundaries clear and consistent, show her you love her, and hopefully she will grow out of the tantrumming phase.

The other thing is, particularly as she is adopted, is that you must treat her with love and care after the outburst. She is testing you, she wants to know what your breaking point is, so she can see if you will turn round and say- thats it, you're going back.
She has to know that you're not going to give up on her- please please don't.

If it's any consolation you could be describing my six year old biological daughter. Well done for staying calm but I wonder if you should react more strictly to them, given her age. Could you be overcompensating and being too soft on her because of her early life? When my dd starts one of her tantrums I warn her that if she continues I will send her to her room. If she refuses to go I put one of the soft toys on the shelf and continue to do so until she does as she's told. Life with her can be a battleground and yet my son (aged 4) is mellow and very easy. Anyway, you have my absolute sympathy. Don't feel bad. We all get moments when we want to scream the place down and you are doing it all on your own for most of the time.

as an adopted child myself i always feel more protective of children who are adopted!

i would say that we have perhaps at times thought this of all our children....i sometimes have thoughts about my middle child who is extremelly difficult at times about what life would be like if he weren't here, i feel truely awful about thinking it, and only post it on here, i wouldn't say that to my DH/friends or anyone in RL.

if your other children are easy going it could seem that her behaviour is really extreme, my MIL reminds me that dc2 is the 'normal' one with all his tantrums and behaviour that causes me to grind my teeth on a daily basis...the other two are just extremelly easy children.

i have often thought if i had had him first i wouldn't have had any other children!

you have to stay the calm one as they grow and develope and go through their various changes and come out the other side as happy balanced adults.

good luck!

It's SO good that you are able to help her calm down when this hits and you are doing SO SO well if it now happens weekly rather than daily. You are a super strong mummy !

You need a strong mummy kind of help for yourself as well don't you? This is not so easy to arrange but the first step may be to ask for it - can you get help from somewhere like After Adoption?

I think the long summer can seem terrifying,does it help to plan stuff for each day or not?

Maybe work on some delayed-gratification stuff too...grow some seeds? make bread? do a big family jigsaw??

I'm interested in what CaptainNancy said.

I have friends who adopted 2 boys. Both boys behaved much as you described. One of the books that my friends read to them a lot was "No matter what"

They used it as a starting point for discussions about their unconditional love for their children.

Hi Just...

Sometimes I have unspeakable thoughts about my own biological children - I wonder why on earth I had them too.

Please, don't burden yourself by analysing these feelings, they are normal parenting feelings.

You will find the energy to get through the holidays - don't think of it as a test, think of it as an opportunity to spend time with your daughter.

It is hard being an adoptive parent, it is hard being any kind of parent, just don't let the bleak thoughts take over. Come on here and vent when you need to and take heart that you are not alone.

If it helps at all I have had low moments after dealing with tantrums/moaning/whinging all day when I have wished I could send my biological son 'back' somewhere. Doesn't mean I don't love him and I'm not committed to him.

Children can be immensely trying and difficult and you sound like you are doing really well with little help. Like you say they are unspeakable thoughts - you're not going to do anything, but you didn't like her/her behaviour much last night. That has nothing to do with how much you still love her.

Last year I was dreading the Summer holidays - they seem to stretch on for so long, and my DCs had rowed all half term. Actually DOING the holidays was much easier than thinking about them. DD will be able to slow down, de-stress and be less tired, which will hopefully slow down the tantrums. All the children in my oldest DS's class are pretty exhausted at the moment, and a lot of them are behaving badly in and out of school.

Good luck with the holidays - and stop feeling guilty and go treat yourself to a nice cup of tea?

DD4 is adopted. I have spent every July in dread of the summer holidays for the past 8 years. She's now 13, she came to live with us at nearly 4.

I know how you feel. I have laid in bed many times wondering what on earth made me do this.

Things are now getting better. We did the councelling, but didnt see any huge improvement, other than me realising it was not me, after all! I am not dreading these summer holidays. I think I can now cope with her mood swings and taking things out on me.

Sorry, no words of wisdom, just wanted to let you know that you are not the only person who has felt like this.

There is no way I would give DD back, but she pushes every button going and I find myself getting really frustrated and annoyed with the tiniest thing with her. In the holidays she has her 4 siblings around and she does not like to "share" me with them.

Little angel for DH! She has told me that she would be very happy if we split up and she would live with DH and I could have "all the others". If she can cause an argument between me and anyone else in the house she sits with a knowing smirk on her face!

Could you plan days out with some company for you and her in the hols, to keep you calm?

Thank you so much to everyone who has replied so far. I can only skim read at the moment as have just returned from sports day, (where DD indulged in a fair amount of challenging behaviour!) and I have to sort a few things out before I can sit and read through all the replies properly. I really appreciate your time and thoughts and will be back later.

I think you are right to give clear boundaries. i do 3 warnings, then stand in corner as per supernanny. Sometimes I can joke out of tanrums, sometimes I can't. Also I find limited number of choices helps. ('Do you want X or Y?) And try not to use the N-word when she is tired.
It's just kids, isn't it? Not nec. because shes adopted; - 5 is still so little and she's had loads to cope with - school is one of them so she will be tired as it's still new for her.

Just13moreyearstogo, I do understand what everyone is saying on here about feeling bad towards their biological children at times, but i have to say that I feel there is a totally different bond between me and my biological children and me and my adopted child. It is something I have really struggled with and she has stretched me to the limit, but I cannot change how I feel. It is not because I dont love her, I DO! Is this your experience?

CaptainNancy - I won't give up on her and I've only once said something awful. That was the impetus for me to go to counselling. I just find it so hard to keep going, day after day.

Juggelugs - the stricter I am the worse it gets. At the moment when she's boiled over she is incapable of reason and goes scarily ballistic if I try to put her in her room. I've found that the approach I'm taking is shortening the duration of the tantrums but they just leave me feeling SO drained and down.

Wideratthehips - thanks for your perspective. I do know
that I need to be more understanding because of her difficult background and at times when she's not in the middle of a fit of rage I keep the boundaries quite firm. She just is much more challenging than my other children and I think I wasn't prepared for how hard I would find it, on a daily basis.

Noteventhebestdrummer - thanks for your kind words. My counsellor is very supportive and has experience of adoption. Your ideas about family projects are nice ones - I often feel so exhausted that I end up fire-fighting rather than really planning nice things to do. I need to think about that.

Littlefish - thank you - I'll have a look at that book.

Sparklyjules - it does help to vent things you can't say in real life and to know that others have had similar feelings.

Ksid - thanks for admitting to similar thoughts! I hope that slowing life down for a few weeks will help.

Positiveattitude - that sounds really tough. And yes, my DD tends to behave better for her dad. It's hard to be the one at which all the rage and distress are directed - that's why I feel so exhausted much of the
time. Re. your second post: yes, I would say the bond I have with her is different and feels more fragile, which is why I get scared by the awful thoughts I sometimes have. I am absolutely committed to her though.

Lucy85 - thanks. You're right about school - she loves it but it definitely takes it out of her and I'm the target!

Can I just add my sympathy (or should it be empathy?).

I have an adopted DS and 4 birth children (one deceased). I dread the holidays. They unsettle my son far more than they ever did my birth children (two of them are very little so not been through it with them yet).

His school are putting on an affordable holiday club this year and I was so relieved to have two weeks accounted for. I love him as much as my other kids, I have no doubt about this. But he is hard work. He is 7 now and his tantrums have gradually decreased over the years. They used to last up to 3 hours and happen several times a day. Now he launches into them but is fairly easy to distract. He tends to be very destructive so you have to get in really fast to prevent damage/injury.

I have said this before on Mns but I think it bears repeating. Adoption may not be the cause of all our children's problems BUT it can never be discounted.

I think you should take heart that your DD's tantrums are lessening. It means you are doing something right

Thank you for sharing about your adopted son, thefirst. I'm so sorry to hear that one of your children died. I agree that it's hard to pick out which part of our children's behaviour can be attributed to adoption and their more troubled start in life and which part is 'normal' behaviour for their age group - I definitely struggle with that.

I think I started to find it a bit easier when I accepted that I will never really know. He has autism as well which further complicates things. As long as I bear it in mind and acknowledge the affects of seperation, attachment, trauma etc.

It does help a bit .

OP... I have grown to dread school holidays. DD (age 11... adopted at 3) cannot seem to cope with the change in / lack of routine. She sounds very much like your DD, especially the part about playing you and your DH off and the tantrums.

Last year, the school holiday club helped. It was on for the first fortnight of the hols and meant there was some continuity for her.

There is also a book that has helped me enormously... "Beyond Logic, Consequences and Control" by Heather Forbes (I think). It helped me understand why DD reacts the way she does a little more. There is also one called "Inside I'm Hurting" by either Helen or Heather Geddes.

All my books are currently waiting in boxes at my new house so sorry if I'm a bit vague with names.

I think there are behaviours that are common to both adopted and biological children that could be easily confused. It's the reasons for the behaviours that differ in many cases. Getting cross with a child that is testing you because a change in routine is terrifying them for reasons they cannot explain is, as you say, counterproductive and will only lead to more of said behaviour.

You sound as though you already have a handle on how to deal with your DD's fears and consequent behaviour... you're doing better than I was at your stage

I have found that the same consequence for the same behaviour seems to work over time. It gives DD continuity... she knows what to expect so she doesn't get nasty surprises.

I hope the summer is better than you (and I) are expecting .

Thanks for the book recommendations, shockers. You're right that biological children can act very badly but having raised two I just know that my daughter's rages are not a 'normal' reaction to whatever seems to have triggered them. I know that the trigger is a kind of excuse to let go of her pent-up feelings.

That's it isn't it? It's really hard to explain to anyone who isn't in the situation, but it's the scale of the reaction to something apparently trivial. I could see DD 'going' as we were out for tea yesterday... I had to show no panic on my face and get her out of there as soon as possible. I think adoptive parents become very attuned but it can take it's toll and we can end up as hyper-vigilant as our children.

I have a biological child too (now grown up and at uni) and an adopted DS. He came to us at birth as a FC. He doesn't have any of the attachment issues that DD has.

All that said, I'm listening to them playing with the hamster and giggling together as I type. It's funny but they both seem to enjoy days at home more than anything else. DS seems to understand how stressful being out is for DD (and us).

Absolutely - the scale of the reaction seems out of all proportion. That's why standard advice about dealing with tantrums doesn't really work. I have to stay absolutely in control of my own feelings of anger and resentment and help her to calm down and feel safe, rather than punish her by withdrawing or sending her off somewhere on her own.

That's lovely about the hamster

Just13moreyearstogo Just wanted to reply to your post and wish you well. I am not an adoptive parent, although we have thought and talked about it I am not sure we are there yet. I've only a couple of times had really terrible tantrums with my birth DD and know how draining I found it so well done for dealing so well with the tantrums and working out what works for you and your DD.

I wondered when you said "I know that the trigger is a kind of excuse to let go of her pent-up feelings." Is there any professional (counsellor-type) advice on how DD can get rid of these pent up feelings in a productive way? I have no idea if this is applicable or not but I know a charity where an overseas worker works with children who have experienced trauma in a war-torn place and the kids draw pictures etc and try and do things to help them come to turns with their feelings about what they have experienced or witnessed. I am not at all sure if this is relevant but wonder if anything like that, art-therapy or anything might give DD a way to vent her feelings before they became pent up? Please, don't think I am being glib, I have no idea, I have not dealt with this level of behaviour.

I also just wondered if your DH is not around a lot if you get all the help you can, I mean do you also have to deal with all the household chores, could you have someone to help with the house etc (a weekly cleaner?). I just wondered if you are taking on everything because you have to or if you might get some help.

I think you are both brave and amazing for coping in the way you have, and I second whoever said to be nice to yourself with cuppa or whatever.

Thanks, Italiangreyhound. I have an idea of the sort of thing you are suggesting. My fear would be that in sending her off to see someone it might create more of a sense of being different when, at the moment, we are very much her family and she has no memory of living with her foster carers and only a limited understanding of how she came to be adopted. I answer every question as it comes up but I don't offer information before she asks. I think play therapy can be useful - I don't have experience of it other than what I've seen on TV. However, given that her teacher tells me she's completely 'normal' at school, I'm loathe to send her to a therapist of some sort who might stir up things she hasn't yet formulated for herself. I've no idea if that makes sense - I'm thinking out loud. However, I could certainly do with thinking creatively when I can see she's getting wound up and, for example, give her some paper and pencils and ask her if she can draw a picture to show how she's feeling. It's not really the sort of thing I do so I would be interested to know if anyone's tried it!

Ny son was having violent tantrums (age 7),a year after I had left his dad, who had attacked me in front of him.

One of my friends gave me some advice that stopped the tantrums almost immediately. She said to get hold of him from behind and sit down with him on the floor, crosslegged, hugging him from behind to prevent him from moving his arms. In that position, he couldn't hit me, and he couldn't see me, and he was getting hugged from behind, whichis reassuring. She explained to me that he was frightening himself as much as me with the tantrum, and he definitely wasn't being 'naughty'. He was just a deeply distressed child. If you do this with your daughter, watch out that she can't bang your chin with her head if she jerks her head back.

It was extraordinary the effect it had on my son. After I did it twice, he started asking for 'back cuddles'.

This friend used to work with traumatised kids in war zones.

Something another friend suggested was wall charts with stickers, which also helped when he was younger. 'I got dressed without a fuss' = a sticker. If he did it every day for a week he got a treat (a lucky bag) + big celebrations. It seemed a bit schoolie at first, but he enjoyed collecting the stickers, and you could maybe do it for your daughter. What triggers the tantrums? Do it for those things.

BTW the sitting down thing is difficult in supermarkets and car parks.

Since then, my son (now 15) has had more tantrums, but very rarely, and he still gets angry, but he hasn't really lost it for ages. I don't think it's so much about his early life any more - it's just when I won't do what he wants. Of course the back hug isn't something you can do with a man-size child, (Maryz, I remember you from another thread - pity you can't use this either) but I do still sometimes hug him from behind. It seems to help if he can't see me, for some reason ... (I don't take it personally).
Good luck.