Covid claims against unis

[UniTO]

This isn't going to affect my institution as we were one of the few doing in person lectures for a fair chunk of the pandemic and I do know some stayed online longer than they should have done but can't help thinking this is going to break some institutions.

The students claiming uni Covid compensation 'for the principle' - BBC News https://share.google/zeZ5tzk6CrZuKQVGp

I know government schemes were helping the economy out but the amount of fraud that went on (PPE scandals etc) ...there could have been a governmental intervention to reduce student fees perhaps?

Some of the comments in that article are hard to take. The girl stuck at her grandparents house with no WiFi .. that's not the university's fault. Maybe she should have withdrawn and returned later. I am a lecturer who has ended up with long term health issues from the pandemic. It was extremely difficult..I caught covid at least once from students who didn't test, who were (understandably) mixing and doing the things young people do.

I sympathise with students but it was shit for everyone. I don't know that unis should bear the cost of refunds here. What do you think?

It’s difficult one isn’t it because as I said before my son was affected and got basically next to sod all that he paid for plus 3 months’on strike’ on top - so yep I do totally understand how he feels, but I also understand it wasn’t easy for the university’s too in this situation - I personally do think everyone who was a student at that time should get a 50% rebate on a years fees but think it would have to be a government initiative.

I agree

pp said open university is only 20-30% cheaper (I haven’t checked this) because the face to face teaching costs are only a small part of a university’s costs per student. Yes there was a big students as there was on all young people in lockdown, but universities didn’t save much if any money, and some will go under if there are large claims. It’s not at all the same as running a gym as you couldn’t go and use the weights, and there was government support for businesses. Would be more similar to Pilates classes going online where you are still getting much of the experience.

I think it’s an easy shot and a poor argument to attack pps as privileged and not understanding current student finances. Many pps who are old enough to have had lower fees themselves will have DC in affected cohort and are well aware of the tough time young people had and are having. And I specifically said this in my earlier post. Also this is in academic common room I think so many pps will have worked insanely hard to support students along with all the other aspects of an academic job.
We considered encouraging DC to sue on a specific couple of points at the time (re specific administrative failure of online assessment) but they didn’t want to. The current claims are far too general . I do know that on some courses at RG unis they stayed online too long but it all needs to be more specific and relate to specific failures within a university’s remit and show related harm and the claims should be for a commensurate amount.

@Thedaysaregettinglongeryay it is also a poor shot to attack posters for being privileged and unaware because this is the board for academics who work in universities and are very aware of the challenges for students and staff alike.

This happens when something appears in active but I started the thread and put it here to ask opinions of other colleagues in universities, not so much miffed parents. Some of us are also parents though.

@Waitinggame42023 yep as per my previous post - I’m not sure who should pay but I do know I would be very miffed ( as is my son) on having a ton of debt for a service that wasn’t delivered . In his unis case, 3 months on strike too . It was all so crap he ended up giving up and going back into work - luckily he had a career to go back into as he was a mature student (21) - if it was all free with just maybe a maintenance loan then it’s different - but it isn’t £10k or so a year to get next to nothing from it wouldn’t hold mustard in commercial world- you would be sued for a refund

surely the universities are protected as they were simply following the law and doing their best under circumstances that were difficult for every single person in the country. Do people think university staff shouldn’t have been paid or their bills paid? Fees just contribute to the running costs of universities and although they are very very burdensome for the student they actually don’t even cover the costs universities face. It was just terrible time with so many casualties across all walks of life. There is no way any university that did a sensible job of following the law should be penalised for that.

The law part ended before some of them returned to in person teaching. Hence the issue.

I feel for those doing practical subjects where they couldn’t access labs or specialised equipment , language students who missed their year abroad , mainly experiences which couldnt be gained from online teaching . Not all degrees were the same in that respect .
im not sure what the right thing is for students like that , I feel for both sides.

I think I scrolled in here via something else - but I'm a mature student who was one of the Covid cohort. I had the utmost time and respect for our lecturers who were generally trying to pivot to online learning, juggle their own families being at home as well (I remember one lecturer recording lectures hiding in her bathroom with her laptop balanced on the laundry basket as it was the only place she could get peace and quiet), shit technology (Blackboard can go die in a fire), shit infrastructure (the uni servers would melt down every week when online lectures for the following week were uploaded) and generally muddling on as best as we all could. Think our entire cohort were really rooting for the lecturing staff through it all - and we definitely praised the shit out of them in our course feedback.

The university though - sack of shit. They mis-sold completely how online learning was going to work, the quality of teaching we were going to get etc etc - I remember being sat on one session just after lockdowns happened and the uni were doing the whole "no, you can't suspend next year, you'll get the same high quality of teaching but delivered differently, small groups on campus as much as possible, quality online recorded lectures, but we're not going to allow people to suspend studies" - basically suckering people into agreeing to progress and then landing them with a really shit experience.

I was doing a vocational pre-registration course - we had to do that year without being able to lay eyes on the assessments we were going to be expected to use, to learn how to do clinical exams without being able to get any practical experience of them, and it was just shite. I'd have had more time for the uni if they'd admitted - we can't deliver this year's training as it's meant to be structured and done a re-jig of modules a bit - some theoretical areas were much better online delivered than the practical stuff - but there was this "we shall be proceeding as planned and covering the designated topic this week" head in sand message from on high that permeated through. The poor staff were tearing their hair out with the whole thing - and there are still areas professionally now that I'm much less confident with - because they were delivered inappropriately during the covid year.

There was also fuck all support for those of us who were mature students with kids trying to survive home school for them, endless changes about what was and wasn't allowed, and keep our heads academically above the water as well. The whole thing was bollocks and I think universities should have been prepared to admit that they couldn't deliver some practical courses rather than trying to slog on inappropriately with them. My other gripe is that they pushed for us to return to live on campus/halls/student digs for that year, when they KNEW that they'd decided to be online for all of it - the mental health toll that took on some people, stuck in a student halls of residence with lockdown measures in progress, limited social network available, just to stare at four tiny walls and slog through online powerpoints - that wasn't fair on them - they wanted the rent income from their accommodation - but they knew that the students didn't need to be sat on a mostly closed campus (even the library largely pivoted online) isolated.

PS don't think I set foot in a bar the entire time I was at uni - but for the young-uns, yes they lost a huge rite of passage and I feel for them.