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I just can't be fucking arsed any more.

195 replies

SmashedPumpkings · 22/04/2024 11:45

It's a rainy Monday at the beginning of assessment and marking season, and I'm at a point in my life where flouncing off forever for an early retired filled with an absence of academic bullshit feels within reach.
No longer being fucking arsed with academic life seems like a perfectly natural reaction to this context.
But, still I need to be a little bit fucking arsed because I do actually need to do my job, if only with minimal effort and if only for a decade-ish.

My lack of arsed-ness is manifesting in several ways including, but not limited to:
> Not pursuing any new research avenues unless they are genuinely innovative, fascinating and/or disruptive. I have no fucks left to give for research which is safe and intending only incremental shifts.
> Not attending conferences or workshops unless there is a clear and direct benefit to me. I have no fucks left to give for hearing about other people's safe research which inevitably results in hardly-discernible incremental shifts.
> Only writing academic articles that excite me even if they are completely left-field from my core research area and not guaranteed 3/4*. I I have no fucks left to give for spending weeks agonising over writing articles that are dull but strategic.
> Putting only minimal effort into teaching such that I ensure the basics and foundations are sound while giving no attention to the singing and dancing add-ons because, shock horror, academia is not one long Tik Tok video. I have no fucks left to give for pedagogical practice which ignores the fundamentals of sound scholarship and assessment and, instead, focuses on shiny things in the name of some bullshit strategy.
> No longer answering stupid student questions. I have no fucks left to give for students who email with questions that have been answered both in person, in lecture materials and on Ultra sites.
> Completing my citizenship role to the absolute minimal standards and at a time which is convenient for me (barring meetings of course). I have no fucks left to give for roles which have minimal kudos attached, from which I get zero satisfaction and which I believe would be more effectively, and cheaply, done by a colleague on an administrator contract.

In short, I'm working to contract whereby I'm doing my job to an adequate quality but no more than that.
Though I'm still a decade away from leaving academia, I'm already beginning the process of winding down. In six or seven years I'll dispense completely with anything which is absolutely non-essential.

Thank you for giving me the time to vent this. For obvious reasons, I've name changed.

I wonder whether anyone else just can't be fucking arsed any more? And if so, how does your not arsed-ness manifest?

OP posts:
EverSoYoni · 29/04/2024 17:17

Oh and the reason I said the marking was “arbitrary “ because we used to get three weeks to mark it, now we get 2. Because students said they wanted marks back quicker. 🤷‍♀️. Anyway, I’m out.

MoreDangerousThanAWomanScorned · 29/04/2024 17:20

You said you had chosen to do this because 'it made you less stressed' now that you 'don't give a shit'. If you're struggling and so unable to do it, rather than choosing not to, I have real sympathy (and, actually, so might the timetabling team, who might be able to offer some support to get your timetabling data in if you didn't just ignore them - they are people too). You made it sound like you had consciously chosen not to bother because it 'only' affected administrators, and I stand by my statement that that's a really shitty attitude.

user8800 · 29/04/2024 17:23

ItsallIeverwanted · 29/04/2024 11:07

@user8800 I feel bad you didn't post 5 weeks ago, as I would have advised you to cc in their head of the module/dissertation course leader and/or the head of department. That's what I tell my students to do if they have a lazy dissertation supervisor. Your son/daughter could seek an extension (if they have a reason) but that's not good enough, but it's very important students are proactive and contact their supervisors when told to do so and attend meetings when they are set.

I have only six dissertation students this year and out of that only three have attended our meetings and sent in work in progress to be reviewed. I don't know what they tell their parents...

My child has been trying to contact the supervisor. They live at home so I've seen the emails.
I will advise them to do as you suggest, thank you.

user8800 · 29/04/2024 17:24

gyrt · 29/04/2024 11:30

@user8800

Your ‘child’ can send a follow up email, sometimes emails are missed

How many is acceptable?
3, 6, 8?...
None have been responded to.

user8800 · 29/04/2024 17:28

ItsallIeverwanted · 29/04/2024 11:08

In other words, I see both- supervisors who aren't bothered, and students who aren't bothered. The supervisors should be pulled up as it's their job for which they are paid. The students- up to them, I can't get over how much help there is for them with our dissertations that they don't take up (after years of them all moaning).

I totally agree.
My child is constantly amazed at how few students turn up to lectures/seminars etc
I - perhaps naively - told them attedance would improve in 3rd year! But it hasn't.

user8800 · 29/04/2024 17:30

decionsdecisions62 · 29/04/2024 11:42

Glad I read at email. Remembered to respond to my dissertation student 😄. She emailed me Friday though.

😊

gyrt · 29/04/2024 17:44

@SmashedPumpkings

What is this pastoral care you and others speak of? Genuine q. Shouldn’t it just be sign post to student welfare/ following institutional policies around safeguarding if there are serious concerns?

PinkMildred · 29/04/2024 17:45

Ratio of 1:100 jesus

our ratio is 1:14

dreamingbohemian · 29/04/2024 17:53

EverSoYoni · 29/04/2024 17:10

Umm that doesn't seem like an insane amount of marking to me?

what on top of teaching 4 days a week 9-4? And answering loads of student emails every day. Just answered another 6 in the last 20 mins. It’s never ending. I had to take the PL role on as I was the only person left in my department. Even now there’s me and someone who’s been a lecturer for six months and still doing their pg cert.

so just turned the laptop off after a 10 hour day. All student emails answered you’ll be pleased to know.

i was obviously mistaken thinking people on this part of MN might be supportive, realise how shit the workload is, etc and understand that we should not be sacrificing our health. I lie in bed and cry and have chest pain like you wouldn’t believe. I can’t go off sick because the course would fold if I did. I won’t return to this thread the judgement from some sanctimonious posters has made me cry again. The shit state my programme is in is not my fault. I have a ratio of 1 lecturer to 100 students. On a course with 30 hrs of f2f teaching a week. Some of the teaching is practical sessions requiring both lecturers. Our governing body says it should be a ratio of 1:24

Then this all sounds extremely unsustainable, and you would be better off resigning. You keep saying the job is not worth your health, and you're right.

Agree with PP this was not at all the tone of your previous posts, if you are struggling this badly then you need to kick up a fuss and get some support in. Who is this manager who's always begging you not to go leave? They can't do that for a start. And if your programme folds because you go on leave, that will look terrible for them as well, so they should have an incentive to do something.

RandomMess · 29/04/2024 18:14

As someone in uni "professional services" it's so frustrating about 5 years ago they started shedding administrators to save academics which I do get. However you now have academics having to do all their own admin. Literally everting you can think of including timetabling it seems.

How was that ever cost effective 🤦🏼‍♀️

ItsallIeverwanted · 29/04/2024 18:30

I think one of the problems in the sector is we have no idea what is normal, even in our institution, the way teaching is organized for staff is different in different departments. It's hard to know what is standard expectation for a professional job and what is beyond anything possible- it's the slow boiling frog problem. I feel my workload is manageable, busy, but manageable (plus I do say no a lot more now), it's nothing like @EverSoYoni . I also do not work every weekend or evening either, nor get up at 5am, I do pretty standard hours, working flexibly as well with the odd extra afternoon/evening. I'm a RG SL.

PinkMildred · 29/04/2024 19:03

Yy. I have a couple of friends who are SL / R in a medical research institute. They have no teaching, no exams, no project students. Their lives are totally different

CelesteCunningham · 29/04/2024 19:24

PinkMildred · 29/04/2024 19:03

Yy. I have a couple of friends who are SL / R in a medical research institute. They have no teaching, no exams, no project students. Their lives are totally different

That's DH, he does a little teaching by choice because he likes it and it keeps ties with the school he did his PhD in. Handy pipeline of PhD students too.

I like teaching and hate research though, so we have two very different jobs despite working for the same uni.

@RandomMess professional services is an absolute joke where I am, they're treated like shit and paid feck all. Hard to progress as well no matter how competent. As someone who came from the financial services it's really frustrating to see as there are very capable people being utterly wasted.

It's also very frustrating to see fellow academics' (often wilful) incompetence at all things admin!

disneyparis · 29/04/2024 19:43

SmashedPumpkings · 29/04/2024 14:59

@disneyparis For the OP - how do conversations go with your line manager with regard to applying for promotion ? Do you just say you're not bothered, or feign interest ?

Promotion is weird at my university. Every two years, we have to submit a progression form which is a kind of quasi-annual review process. If the department panel feel you are ready, you will be nominated for promotion. So, essentially, everyone has to apply for promotion every two years regardless of whether or not we're interested or ready.
So I can't really avoid it.
But I put minimal effort into the actual form. And I don't pay any attention to the feedback.

Outside of this process, no-one has talked to me about promotion. If they did, I'd just say "That's not something I'm pursuing at the moment" and leave it at that.

Interesting !

I'm asking as I'm currently at a stage with young kids where I don't have motivation to do all the extra crap that is needed to tick the boxes to get to next promotion (assoc prof). Yet people expect that I will be applying for it. A few years ago yes I would have envisioned myself being more ambitious, but like you I CBA with a lot of the tedious internal meetings/commitees so avoid if possible. It helps that my role is split between two departments.
My only worry is that financially this is not the best strategy as I want to earn more. I have about 20 years left before pension age so maybe I'm too negative ?!
I look at some of the boring stuff the profs do (opening welcome at some internal conference and then have to be there all day) and it's not appealing in the slightest.
Does being paid more incentivise you or are you happy to stay at current level ?

CelesteCunningham · 29/04/2024 19:47

@disneyparis I'm lecturer and have just chucked in my part-time PhD. The young children years are a large part of the reason why.

I think treading water for a few years and then upping the ante is very normal and sensible to preserve mental health.

SmashedPumpkings · 30/04/2024 10:32

disneyparis · 29/04/2024 19:43

Interesting !

I'm asking as I'm currently at a stage with young kids where I don't have motivation to do all the extra crap that is needed to tick the boxes to get to next promotion (assoc prof). Yet people expect that I will be applying for it. A few years ago yes I would have envisioned myself being more ambitious, but like you I CBA with a lot of the tedious internal meetings/commitees so avoid if possible. It helps that my role is split between two departments.
My only worry is that financially this is not the best strategy as I want to earn more. I have about 20 years left before pension age so maybe I'm too negative ?!
I look at some of the boring stuff the profs do (opening welcome at some internal conference and then have to be there all day) and it's not appealing in the slightest.
Does being paid more incentivise you or are you happy to stay at current level ?

At my university, the benchmarks are adjusted for contextual issues like taking maternity leave. So people who've had career breaks or work part-time don't have to do/have as much to get promoted. Have a look whether your circumstances might be taken into account if you did submit a promotion application.

However, I don't fully agree with you that you need to do the tedious crap to get promoted. Things like "welcoming note at a conference" aren't going to make a difference to promotion decisions. So if its something you want to pursue, only focus on the 'big' things - stuff which can be quantified to be used as evidence for promotion benchmarks at your institution.

No, more pay doesn't incentivize me to work harder or pursue promotion. The jump in pay isn't worth it for me.

OP posts:
SmashedPumpkings · 30/04/2024 10:40

ItsallIeverwanted · 29/04/2024 18:30

I think one of the problems in the sector is we have no idea what is normal, even in our institution, the way teaching is organized for staff is different in different departments. It's hard to know what is standard expectation for a professional job and what is beyond anything possible- it's the slow boiling frog problem. I feel my workload is manageable, busy, but manageable (plus I do say no a lot more now), it's nothing like @EverSoYoni . I also do not work every weekend or evening either, nor get up at 5am, I do pretty standard hours, working flexibly as well with the odd extra afternoon/evening. I'm a RG SL.

Yes, absolutely true.

My DP's an academic at a different university in a different field.
He teaches 20 hours per year, I teach 200.

OP posts:
PinkMildred · 30/04/2024 12:27

jump on pay is significant for me as the difference in pension is huge. I could be full prof at 45 and having 20 years of prof-salary level contributions is massive. We have three prof scales so earning 100k+ is very achievable

PinkMildred · 30/04/2024 12:31

(Personal obv). I accept I am more obsessed with my pension than the usual

SmashedPumpkings · 30/04/2024 13:27

PinkMildred · 30/04/2024 12:31

(Personal obv). I accept I am more obsessed with my pension than the usual

It's not a bad obsession to have.

For me, the jump in pay and pension aren't worth it because I'm only sticking around in academia for another ten years, and I'm at least five years off even being remotely considered for a professor position. But professor is definitely something to work towards if you're looking at another 20-25 years, and professor is close.

OP posts:
Westfacing · 30/04/2024 14:21

I'm a retired nurse not an academic, although I worked in a secretarial role at Imperial in the 80s!

Ten years is a long time to quietly quit - don't you think it will dull you and drain your vibrancy, IYSWIM?

Over the years I worked with many a coaster those who did the minimum to pass muster - thing is that was just how they were and always had been, not making a conscious decision to ease-up as you are.

You might find working-to-rule takes a lot of effort.

SmashedPumpkings · 30/04/2024 14:48

Westfacing · 30/04/2024 14:21

I'm a retired nurse not an academic, although I worked in a secretarial role at Imperial in the 80s!

Ten years is a long time to quietly quit - don't you think it will dull you and drain your vibrancy, IYSWIM?

Over the years I worked with many a coaster those who did the minimum to pass muster - thing is that was just how they were and always had been, not making a conscious decision to ease-up as you are.

You might find working-to-rule takes a lot of effort.

Absolutely not. I don't get my vibrancy from working over my contracted hours on activities which have zero impact, benefit or relevance. I get my vibrancy from working the hours I'm paid on useful tasks and projects that I enjoy, that have some pay-off, and that I can do properly because I've dispensed with all the bullshit.

OP posts:
decionsdecisions62 · 30/04/2024 19:14

@Westfacing Having worked as both a nurse and now as an academic I find that stark differences in motivational work factors. In nursing you are very much a team player. Your output depends on the contribution of others. Academics tends not to be team players. Sure they teach and sit in meetings with others but most of the time their focus is on building their own profile and competition is a reality, Most of the time the colleagues we work alongside have no interest or understanding of our individual workloads, interests etc, they just turn up and do their own thing. So a colleague can coast and it is a minor irritation rather than causing major disruption.

disneyparis · 01/05/2024 07:23

decionsdecisions62 · 30/04/2024 19:14

@Westfacing Having worked as both a nurse and now as an academic I find that stark differences in motivational work factors. In nursing you are very much a team player. Your output depends on the contribution of others. Academics tends not to be team players. Sure they teach and sit in meetings with others but most of the time their focus is on building their own profile and competition is a reality, Most of the time the colleagues we work alongside have no interest or understanding of our individual workloads, interests etc, they just turn up and do their own thing. So a colleague can coast and it is a minor irritation rather than causing major disruption.

Totally agree.

Sure you "collaborate" with other institutions and have colleagues but it's very individual, probably because everyone's knowledge & research interests are very niche.

I find nearly all of pressure to achieve/ succeed falls on your own shoulders (in research anyway). If you go on annual leave/have to take a leave of absence for any reason, no one covers your projects/workload and things stall.

CelesteCunningham · 01/05/2024 08:33

decionsdecisions62 · 30/04/2024 19:14

@Westfacing Having worked as both a nurse and now as an academic I find that stark differences in motivational work factors. In nursing you are very much a team player. Your output depends on the contribution of others. Academics tends not to be team players. Sure they teach and sit in meetings with others but most of the time their focus is on building their own profile and competition is a reality, Most of the time the colleagues we work alongside have no interest or understanding of our individual workloads, interests etc, they just turn up and do their own thing. So a colleague can coast and it is a minor irritation rather than causing major disruption.

Yes, very much. I'm coasting for now but the only thing it's affecting is my own workload and progression. I'm on top of my teaching and admin so zero consequences for anyone else, and if anything my students benefit.

(But of course, things that benefit students rarely count for anything, especially progression, even on an education contract.)

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