Apparently my students are unhappy

[UnhappyAcademic]

So as programme lead my boss called me into a meeting. Apparently some students complained about the course to someone not directly on the course. The complaints were quite serious

so SLT got the students together (without our knowledge) and asked what the issues were. general stuff regarding feeling that staff didn’t care about them and they felt not valued.

so I was asked what I intend to do about it. So I’ve asked for more specifics about why the students feel we don’t care, etc and nothing was forthcoming. It sounds like SLT didn’t ask. So I’m now in the position of not really knowing what the issue is.

module evaluations are ok. Nss wasn’t great but again no real details. The main stuff I have heard students complain about are out of my control, OneUni stuff, placement capacity.

I feel as a team we support the students so much. We answer emails, provide academic and pastoral support. Sessions are organised, blackboard sites are up and running, assessments clearly stated and don’t change. Anyone can have a 1-1 about anything at any time. I had two stressed emails from students today and teams called them both back by lunchtime. We do a weekly online drop in which students can come to with any issues.

any ideas for anything innovative, different I can do to make students feel more loved?

I’m very seriously considering retiring after this year, after 32 years, and dealing with this constant onslaught of student complaints is a big part of that decision. Heads of department used to support staff in these situations but now they always back the students because of their desperate fear of the NSS. I’ve had enough. I’m convenor of the exam board and senior tutor so I deal constantly with “it’s not fair” whining and I am losing all patience.

I think you need to head this off at the pass next year if it's a first year module and have an induction session on the structure, what's expected of them etc. If you did that this year then all the better, you can show them the slides.

Extraordinarily confident for first years!

Another issue here too, especially with the major project modules. The more input and help you give, the more they try to blame you when their grade falls short of their expectations. As the saying goes, no good deed goes unpunished.

These days I'm careful not to exceed my required input as a supervisor. This means adhering to strict time limits on supervision, and specific milestones for reading drafts. (As an undergraduate, no one ever read a draft version of my dissertation or provided suggested structures for the work at all).

This is what comes of charging tuition fees and turning students into consumers who now have specific (and frankly bizarre) expectations as to the 'service' they are entitled to expect. There seems to be an assumption in some quarters that they are paying for the degree so are entitled to receive the grades they want. It's a mad attitude: analogous to buying a gym membership but not using any of the equipment or putting in the graft, expecting your personal trainer to do all the work for you, and then complaining to the gym because you haven't toned up or lost weight.

This whole sector has gone predictably batshit and the rot really set in post 1997. Even then, I doubt it could have been predicted how far or fast UKHE would unravel.

Most of my colleagues who were in a position to retire, have.

Maybe relevant, I worked with just post-graduate young people in HR in my recent job and in comparison to our other team members who were older, they were so difficult. I am not some 'boomer' hi doesn't understand. I have kids. I've also been through universities. But they honestly expected to be spoon fed everything. We were not to have expectations or give deadlines as otherwise it would cause stress. One intern 'told' me that he would consider staying after graduation but only if he started out in 45k. I tried hard not to laugh. He was the laziest of the lazy bunch.

I left that role utterly convinced that young adults do not have a bloody clue about actual life, dealing with it, and usually an inflated sense of their own importance and value.

A member of my cohort complained about me (course rep) when she came to me upset about her “complete failure to understand the assignment” total fail grade.

I’ve dealt with this a few times (I’ve failed one myself when delirious with flu and uploaded my notes, not the actual assignment…) and it’s generally been down to MH, a potentially undiagnosed SpLD, some illness that they tried to power through when they should have submitted an NEC, a daft mistake like mine - But not this girl.

I asked if she’d attended the lectures/labs?

No.

Did she watch them online?

No.

What did she do, then?

Read the lecture slides.

Any of the recommended outside reading or fall down a rabbit hole of her own?

No.

I told her that merely reading the slides was the equivalent of reading the blurb of Ulysses, writing a report and expecting a First.

It did not go down well.

Agreed! I love this book. Have read it twice and I'm a rehabilitated people pleaser (along with therapy). God it's so liberating.

Solidarity to you all.

I got pulled aside by a 2nd year student in the second class of the term, and they opened the conversation with "I need to talk to you about your teaching style." It got worse ...

It starts to make me feel that 30 years of teaching and being at the top of my research field is as nowt to a mediocre undergrad.

@EasterIsland oh my. The arrogant wee shite.

Well, yes. But if you read the Higher Education section on Mumsnet, you can see where such arrogance & entitlement comes from.

Note to self: stop trying to defend universities or academics to MN pushy parents ...

I told her that merely reading the slides was the equivalent of reading the blurb of Ulysses, writing a report and expecting a First.

This resonates so much in terms of some of my A-level students. It really feels like a few of them, in lessons, simply want to copy out the slides word for word, and when I ask a question or want them to engage in a discussion or a task, I'm interrupting their copying.

I've explained to them, multiple times in multiple ways, that simply copying the slides won't help understanding, and that actually engaging in the tasks might, or that it won't help their long term memory, and so on. I've also talked about "what it will be like at uni" (Certainly when I was at uni, if you asked a lecturer in a lecturer theatre of 100 to "go back a slide" because you missed something, you'd be laughed at).

I've suggested if they want to copy out powerpoints word for word, they can do that in their own time, as well.

I think part of the problem is, in my subject, students can get through GCSE simply through memorising facts- at A-level, more application is required, but grade boundaries are quite low, and memorisation can still take you quite a long way.

And probably (especially in the last three years due to CAGs/TAGs/Advance information) there's lots of students getting to uni who don't really have the skills for it.

Complaints surged in my department. I am very surprised by this and also the attitude of the heads. They consider academics should just carefully address what students want.
I think universities are taking the opportunity to push academics in their 60+ to leave; they also want those with poor performance to leave. However, now younger academics are upset by these complaints too.

Sorry, that doesn't actually offer any help- but basically I doubt it's your fault.

I can also imagine placements are a nightmare right now, and that's difficult to avoid.

In terms of feedback, we do ask our sixth formers for feedback. If they give a negative answer, they have to justify it with a comment. If they give a positive one they don't. (Which is not good survey design, but it tends to avoid spurious negative ratings). It might be worth sending a survey like this to your students?

This

It's actually nasty for society in a globalised world where he is meant to produce highly skilled workers and we end up with entitled lazy numpties. All stems back to Tony Blair and fees, plus each gov raising them.

Odd thing is they Value education less not more when they pay, like the gym analogy above.

Im.sure I wrote bad not nasty but mn does like to change words, add lines, reformat things and generally be v difficult to use nowadays!

@Postapocalypticcowgirl it really does baffle me. At first I thought it was an age thing; they’re teens, I’m in my 30s, single with DCs, and I just had more skin in the game than they did. But it really isn’t.

I was friendly with a lot of them and I’d say around 15% were like me. Attended everything, actively engaged with the outside reading, did our own stuff, booked office hours to discuss things we couldn’t figure out ourselves, did some of the free smaller courses (big push on Data Science within the Bioscience department) and we all did really well.

Most fell in the “I didn’t put it any effort but still deserve a First” category. Most didn’t understand that University level study is not a case of simply learning stuff by rote and repeating, being spoon fed everything, etc.

I assume that, at one point in time, Y2 is when a lot of people would have dropped after realising they don’t have the academic ability/drive/determination/other skill sets required for it. But now? It’s all softly, gently with them and blame the staff.!

My favourite complaint ever was from a student who found an assignment too hard. On probing a bit, it turned out that he hadn't come to most lectures. He didn't have a hard copy of the lecture notes (which had been available for collection in every lecture in the first few weeks). He hadn't downloaded the pdf version from the VLE and hadn't read any of it. But nonetheless it was unfair that the assignment was too hard.

I attended university when tuition fees did not exist.
We had some fantastic lecturers and frankly some really dire ones.
We would moan about the rubbish lecturers among ourselves but that was about it. We would not officially complain
However, the introduction of tuition fees mean that universities are effectively a business and the students are consumers/clients who simply expect more .

In addition, the culture has changed .
Many students expect handouts/ detailed notes. They fail to realise that university is supposed to promote independence and that means they need to research around their chosen subject .
The internet has made some students think that everything should be within easy reach and when they find that this is not the case they get frustrated.

Not everyone is cut out for university .
Everyone and their dog now thinks that they should be able to attend university which is part of the problem

Call your own meeting with the students and say your sorry to hear they aren't happy and you want to work with them to make improvements and do a

What you said
What we did document

Present it to SLT

Oh the '"What P is this miss?" P as in 'pass' at BTEC.

I tend to teach the same way.

Powerpoint in a dyslexia friendly font.

Gapped handout - also in dyslexia friendly font - which I tell them to write in their own words.

As much practical stuff as I can fit in.

So I have had students forming into a cell membrane and passing footballs as potassium, sodium, calcium in and out while the rest of the class pelts rolls ball pit balls at them to simulate diffusion.

You still get the ones who leave with an empty sheet, or an hour in say, "I don't understand", Well if you had put your phone down and listened you might have understood.

But I have to say when it is something a student has studied for 5 years at school and they get it, and they say, "Oh I get that", it makes up for the moaning and groaning.

Now that I've been in academia for a good number of years I have sufficient confidence not to entertain this kind of shite. I'll happily expend the time to help people improve, and am good at it, as many of the graduates I've taught will testify. If students feel something's going wrong with a module, or if there's something they want out of their learning that they feel they're not getting, I'll not only listen to their concerns but where possible will act on them.

But the sort who would cast personal aspersions on my style or manner of teaching will be be sent away with a large flea in their ear. This is the sort of person who needs to be shown very clearly where appropriate boundaries lie. As for doing that in class, they need firmly telling that this was not the time or the place. Sympathies, it's awful when they blindside you like that.

I wouldn't have dreamed of behaving this way to one of my lecturers. Students like these have probably never heard the word 'no', and have been used to others capitulating to their will for the whole of their spoilt lives. Hearing someone lay it on the line will do them good.

@MarieIVanArkleStinks I have recently explained that activities and structures for my sessions cannot be decided via 'student committee '. I have to say, it is mainly the male students who are like this. Perhaps they think challenging older female lecturer is easier?Largely, they are ok when I tell them straight that I cannot do my job if I have to consult them on whether every activity is something they're willing to engage with. Challenge in subject discussions is good but certainly some students regard themselves as peers with staff and when they have any sort of rules/authority to confront, they can't cope.

We have an awful, appearance driven culture these days which puts such pressure on them, they want to be successful without really putting in the effort in many cases. Also combined with customer mentality, makes taking responsibility for learning ever harder.

@Mumteedum there are statistics somewhere (UCU?) that female lecturers receive far harsher judgement in MEQs than male lecturers. Arguments have been made, since eclipsed by more pressing issues and strike action etc., that these are discriminatory and unhelpful and questions have been raised around their continued use. Trouble is, they're embedded into a culture which now likes to put lecturers on trial in front of their students. Complete anonymity means they can say exactly what they like. This isn't helped by universities thinking they can counter this sort of thing with gentle admonitions to be more professional and respectful. Anyone laughing at the back?

The 'assessment is too hard' thing rings another bell. Every single MEQ, no matter what the module, no matter even if templates have been given as to the suggested structure of the assessment and umpteen sessions devoted purely to guidance, they never fail to register the complaint that insufficient guidance has been given.

I have a module in which students do work feeding into their assessment every single week. Even if they choose not to attend, all this work is posted every week on the VLE. I have a consultation hour they can call into and ask about it, if seminars really are too much. There's a screencast on the VLE talking them through the brief and the rubrics. There's little else I can do short of do the bloody work for them.

I still get feedback every year - mainly but not exclusively from non-attendees - that they didn't receive enough assessment guidance.

'You said we did' gets on my tip too, to be honest. Lecturers are not performing monkeys and do not jump on command.

The replies to this thread resonate so much. In addition to what has been said, I have also noticed a real change in staff: when I joined my department ten years ago, NSS and student feedback were treated with a certain distance, and we even laughed at some of the most egregious comments (eg. taking an interdisciplinary course clearly marked as such and complaining that "the course was not just about my own discipline").
Now student feedback is revealed truth, and it's not that there's been a massive turnover in staff - it's mostly the same people having become more fearsome of losing students or of causing them unspoken mental health crisis, and less critical of the commercialization of HE (while religiously dennouncing the "neoliberalization" from their social media accounts).
I got so fed up with the "you said, we did model" a few years ago that I said to my boss that I simply wasn't going to reply to comments which were patently untrue (I had something every day in every class to help students digest the material for the assignment, but still: NO HELP PROVIDED WITH ASSIGNMNETS), and would only if the students could back up their patent lying. Fortunately I was left alone.