Apparently my students are unhappy

[UnhappyAcademic]

So as programme lead my boss called me into a meeting. Apparently some students complained about the course to someone not directly on the course. The complaints were quite serious

so SLT got the students together (without our knowledge) and asked what the issues were. general stuff regarding feeling that staff didn’t care about them and they felt not valued.

so I was asked what I intend to do about it. So I’ve asked for more specifics about why the students feel we don’t care, etc and nothing was forthcoming. It sounds like SLT didn’t ask. So I’m now in the position of not really knowing what the issue is.

module evaluations are ok. Nss wasn’t great but again no real details. The main stuff I have heard students complain about are out of my control, OneUni stuff, placement capacity.

I feel as a team we support the students so much. We answer emails, provide academic and pastoral support. Sessions are organised, blackboard sites are up and running, assessments clearly stated and don’t change. Anyone can have a 1-1 about anything at any time. I had two stressed emails from students today and teams called them both back by lunchtime. We do a weekly online drop in which students can come to with any issues.

any ideas for anything innovative, different I can do to make students feel more loved?

@MurderBot love the username, I’ve just finished the first book!

I heard a lot of “the material is too dry” complaints - it’s fucking science, if you wanted a jazzy subject maybe transfer to drama instead?

I have been very upset by negative feedback in the past, particularly when it becomes personal and unfair which seems to be a trend with one particular cohort and exacerbated by colleagues who treat work like a popularity contest.

Somehow, through my own illness, I have manage to shift my thinking.

A few things leap out from your post.

First...your SLT have handled this badly. How can you address concerns which are so vague?

Second, you sound really kind and concerned but do not take on responsibility for this to the detriment of your own health.

There's a real dance we do between getting students to take responsibility for their own learning and addressing legitimate concerns. We all like a good moan but you can't make actions without clearer data.

I would call a meeting and give a heads up to course reps first. Put it back on them. What would they like to see, specifically? Ask the reps to report back with clear examples for next course committee meeting. Saying staff don't care is not good enough.

In short, I'd do 'something' but do not take it on as your responsibility entirely. Make sure your course team are involved too.

@SpacersChoice Haha, thanks - I got slightly obsessed with the books once I started, they're on my regular re-read rotation!

Yep. Probably caused by the dawning realisation that if they want to get anywhere, they actually need to knuckle down and do some hard work. That is just so unfair!!!

I had a lecturer who said in the first lecture that the NSS scores affect the ranking of the institution we attend so its in our best interests to be generous, and go straight to them with concerns. They get v good scores ha

@EasterIsland

Def something to be said for managing expectations and being well boundaried.

I'm only a Visiting Lecturer but so much of this resonates with me. I've got one table who are just..... arsey for want of a better word. I'll go to hand papers out and they will be checking their emails or working on another assignment. Can't wait for their assignments to be due and the complaints to roll in!

Also I tend to get moaning about my male colleagues, and I've taken to brightly suggesting they talk to them, or pop it in their MEQs

It’s good to get ideas here but could be grasping at straws if not tackling the underlying reasons students feel uncared for.

As a team I would create a survey asking for aspects that students feel are going well and aspects which need development and suggestions on how to remedy problematic areas.

students could also do group work termly to review how they found modules, positives and negatives, plus how to improve.

This thread is very thought-provoking (and a bit worrying). Out of interest, how do academics feel about being asked to attend student-focussed social events after working hours? I think that volunteers should be paid to do so or offered TOIL. So they aren't just working longer and longer hours. I even know of one uni which is even asking faculty to pay to attend these events- and the tickets weren't cheap! That seems pretty cheeky to me - basically asking faculty to pay to do work for the university in their own time. In the middle of a pay dispute.

Do some very specific student voice questionnaires asking for feedback on how happy they are with each of the amazing things you have listed here that you do. For any that they are unhappy with get them go suggest how it could be better. I imagine you will find they will be very satisfied with what you do and this is just linked to general malaise.

I teach in a secondary school and students will shamelessly try to blame anyone but themselves when things aren't going well for them. 'I don't know how to revise' so we teach them, 'I don't know what to revise' so we make revision plans, self reflection sheets breakdowns of the spec etc, 'I struggle to organise my time' so we make them timetables, mind maps, knowledge organisers', 'I don't get it' so we hold recap or revision sessions. I feel like I go round and round in circles trying to fix these problems that is essentially boil down to a child who won't actually put the mental graft in to do some revision.

Anyway, off on a tangent but I bet the dissatisfied students are lazy and failing and trying to set the stage that it's someone else's fault because it sounds like you go above and beyond to help your students.

I'd split them up! I often randomly allocate a table number on entry to class. Aside from preventing the cliquey-ness you describe, it's good for the students to hear perspectives of people outside their peer group and develop soft skills around working with new people. Does often improve engagement too

Completely agree about dominant characters within a cohort, we had a terrible time with that a few years ago (I was delighted to be on maternity leave for their final year).

It does sound like you're doing plenty. I'm going to start doing a few "what I expect from you and what you can expect from me" slides at the start of my modules, setting expectations early helps. See also email policies.

Student voice surveys on the changes you've made as outlined by @WonderingWanda are a good idea I think.

All very frustrating, and sadly not unusual.

It is very interesting to watch the cohort dynamics as a mid 30s UG student who couldn’t give a fuck about fitting in and has young teenagers at home who behave better/can seek out knowledge off their own backs.

What I’ve noticed with lab work is that a certain type of (white male) expected me to do all the lab work, the calculations and then explain it to them. They would get angry when I just gave them a confused look and employed my eldest child’s tactic of repeating their question back to them, confirming that they believe they, and asking them to explain -

“You want me to do all your work for you? And you genuinely believe that I should? Can you explain why? Go on, explain it to me like I’m stupid.”

I think it's the students that need to change their attitude here. Students get out what they put in. A lot of the time, students don't engage fully with the teaching and workshops, and then they put the blame on the hardworking staff.

I would also question why you are getting grilled by another member of staff. Thankfully, there is somewhat of a culture of nepotism in my department, and all staff are sure to back up the other staff to ensure all complaints are nipped in the bud. I wonder why your colleague is backing the students instead of you?

I think it's the students that need to change their attitude here. Students get out what they put in. A lot of the time, students don't engage fully with the teaching and workshops, and then they put the blame on the hardworking staff.

But if you tell them this, or even hint, the whingers come out in force.

But I've learnt something on this thread - to pay more attention to that middle group of students, who are quietly getting on with things. It is probably the case that I've tended to overlook them.

This really resonated with me. I have to meet with the student reps because four students in the cohort didn't like my approach in asking questions in a seminar. The cohort rep has already suggested that another member of staff is present as in their words, 'it is quite emotional and personally directed towards one member of staff'. This is following a staff student committee meeting where one rep questioned repeatedly how we ensured our assessment and academic skills were up to scratch. My boss is supportive but to be honest I am so fed up I am thinking of throwing the towel in. Students want classes to be 'entertaining and exciting'. I am not a sodding entertainer. I have been working in HE for 16 years and have never felt so utterly fed up.

I was a university student in the late 1990s and am just finishing up a part time foundation degree taken for my own interest.

The spoon feeding now is amazing! Everything is at my fingertips including lecturers and assignment guidance. It's so easy now in comparison.

Very interesting to see the difference. My first degree i didn't feel anyone owed me anything and just got on with it myself. I guess the introduction of fees really changed students attitudes.

Why on earth is your line manager allowing this to happen? It’s completely inappropriate. They should be the one meeting the student reps and mediating the situation rather than allowing you to be ganged up on in this way. You should refuse to attend this meeting. Speak to your UCU rep or HR.

The Courage to be Disliked should be required reading.

Thanks @GCAcademic I'm not a member of a union and I am wary of approaching HR as I don't want this on my file. I am really considering my options here. It feels like a complete pile on. My manager is not great at shutting students down and the University as a whole is very student centric. I am not quite sure of the right course of action to be honest. Most of my colleagues are quite inexperienced and very part time so I don't feel I can ask them to support really. I am honestly not quite sure when asking questions became something that was a problem for students. The SSCM are a nightmare and not well managed, one of my colleagues who has similar experiences has recently been promoted out of the department into a related field and I am qualified to do this but positions are really rare. I can't remember the last time I enjoyed a day at work tbh.

I do find some students are bonkers entitled these days.

one of my cohorts has disliked one of their modules big time. But they haven’t come direct to the module lead or a personal tutor or the programme lead. Oh no, they emailed the head of school and both deputy head of schools (one of which has nothing to do with the programme).

lots of complaints about teaching quality, the students have suggested they employ someone with more subject knowledge 🙈. They didn’t like the assessments and some very specific points about things in the assessment they didn’t like. Email was about 5 pages of a4.

Included general complaints about the course and how they hadn’t been taught about xyz in the first 8 weeks of the programme (they don’t need to be and I have no intention of ever teaching xyz until later on).

thankfully deputy head seems supportive and is planing on getting the two students who emailed to meet him for a coffee and talk to them. And kindly but firmly say some of their points have no merit. He did say that he can’t believe first years think they have more idea how to run a degree course than experienced lecturers. So that’s something 😂

I can't say how reassuring and depressing this thread is, in equal measures!

I am already dreading September rolling around so we can have more of the same, all over again. In my experience, a good chunk of the class want huge amount of contact hours, which are of course entirely optional to attend (they won't), as little assessment as possible which is practically written for them, absolutely no independent reading or directed study, no assessments that overlap, and a complete understanding that their studies are absolutely at the bottom of the list of many competing priorities in their lives. I find myself apologising constantly that the material in third year is hard! It should be...you are studying for a degree!

Hard agree with whoever said the problem stems from treating students like customers. We can never do enough, and they are always right. It's utterly awful.

Send feedback to the hard workers.

I'm VI form / college and schools so different. I had a quite a tricky group, they had had a couple of supply teachers when I got them and had a few vocal and not listening.

I phoned the parents of the kids who were doing their best, I just said I know there are some vocal people but I do know your son / daughter is in my class and I can see them working hard, I might not have a chance to say it in class.

Obviously with adults it is different, and I do think you need to tell them what you expect from them and what they can expect for you.

I had an access course, so different ages / experiences so before starting a topic I would ask if anyone knew anything about it, or could they say what it was.

Apparently this was me, "getting them to do my job".

This was the same group I had handouts for, the handouts were numbered 1, 2 3. I asked them to make sure they all had three different pages numbered 1, 2 and 3.

They a) didn't check and some took three pages, some took one, some took 3 pages without looking so they had 2 page 2.

They then complained I talked down to them.

Some days the wine is essential.

Oh and something else my students said in their email. They had some suggestions of how we could change the course structure because they know students from other universities who do xyz differently.

one of these universities I’ve actually taught at previously which they obviously don’t realise.

these are 1st years! How confident of them that after 5 months they think they can tell a group of experienced academics how to run a course. 😂

God, they sound like a bunch of big babies.
Too much worrying about their sensitivities and feelings.
I would go for the tough love approach and treat them like adults ...