Students taking the P!

[T4Opal]

I teach on an undergraduate programme and run a specialist module where students will have that specialism named on their degree.
1 particular student chose my module and has not attended a single workshop, nor have they bothered responding any of my emails. Despite academic regulations stating 3 missed sessions can lead to disciplinary action nothing has been done regardless of the fact I have raised this many times.
I said if they submit the assessment I refuse to mark it but have been told by the programme leader and HoD that I must.
What are your thoughts on this? I know they are our paying customers, but to be declared a specialist in an area they have neglected to attend at all just seems wrong to me.
Allegedly said student has mental health issues but has managed to complete their placement for this academic year. I think them passing this assessment makes a mockery of the whole system.

Student or Students ?

1 student has not attended a single taught session of the module nor done and asynchronous work, only submitted the final assessment.

This is becoming increasingly common. We are having terrible problems with our Year 1 students; we basically have less than 50% attendance at each session. I'm told by colleagues in other departments and at other universities that it's the same there. It probably has something to do with the fact that they'd spent 18 months in lockdown and attending school online prior to starting university. No one is going to do anything about it because that would mean taking disciplinary action against half of the cohort. The lack of attendance is at least coming out in their marks; a lot of them are getting a very nasty shock at their third class and fail marks which are apparently not in same the spirit of generosity as those teacher-awarded grades last summer.

I struggle with similar students and non attendance - you'd think as paying customers they'd want value for money! However there are a small subset of students who believe they are purchasing a qualification rather than an education

Though I suppose if they pass the assessment they will have met the learning outcomes, I've learned that presence in the classroom doesn't always mean engagement in the classroom. Ive watched the odd student actually and quite obviously asleep during some larger lectures 🤷🏻‍♀️

Sad isn’t it?
DD is about to attend university and I’d be gutted paying all that money for them to miss lectures and deadlines.

What strikes me as odd is yes they are over 18 but still financially linked to parents, we have to pay all costs, yet get no fees back if we are wasting our investment.

You can't invent new regulations. If the programme spec or something in the regs allows you to do this, fine, but you can't invent new rules. I understand your frustration about no action being taking about the missed sessions, but it doesn't mean that you can unilaterally apply a penalty without the proper process being followed. Sorry, you probably know this, but I deal with appeals, including cases that go to the OIA, and there's no way this would fly.

In relation to your title, I'm nodding along fervently. I'm getting sick of students' self-perception of being hard done by. There's no sense at all that it's a privilege to spend time exploring subjects you're interested in, to a large extent being underwritten by the taxpayer to do so (taking into account the under-repayment of student loans). Of course I see why they might feel like that, but I think the perpetual sense of grievance is a form of emotional self-harm.

I may be jaded right now, and yes, I do know that they're not a homogenous mass. I deal with a self-selecting minority.

I suppose you'll have to mark whatever they hand in. Likely it won't be all that good.

This year has been a record year for my students for plagiarism, crap excuses for not coming to class and mark queries 'I think it should be a first' - what do they expect when they say that!? Like I'm just going to let them award their own grades ffs.

I do feel for them though as they have had a crap couple of years and have ended up as a result riddled with mental health problems, unsocialised and a bit unused to the standard needed.

If they pass the assessment then they pass. If that's what the assessment criteria says then that has to be followed, and I think that's only fair. Chances are, though, that a student who hasn't attended at all won't be able to pass.

For future years, is there any possibility of changing how your module is assessed? Several first-year modules in my department tie part of the grade to attendance and/or seminar contribution. There has been discussion of extending this to 2nd and 3rd years to encourage attendance. Personally I'm not a fan, especially for 3rd years. I'd rather assess them on their subject knowledge than give out easy marks for attendance. But if you feel like attendance should be part of what is required to pass your module, it should be in the assessment criteria. I do know getting changes like this agreed can be a lot harder than it should be though!

DD had a tendancy to fall asleep during lectures @damekindness, but that is because she suffers from CFS. She watched the recordings afterwards so she could consolidate her notes.

As a student in my final year due to personal circumstance couldn't physically attend classes in the last semester, I informed counsellors and specific university staff and followed lectures online and worked remotely. I think your comments regarding the student are cruel and vindictive. I honestly think you should be unable to teach any further.

Modern university?

@marblemad if my student had informed me of such as you describe, this would obviously be a different scenario. I have another student who is attending remotely whilst on maternity leave (her choice) and we are doing everything to support her and enable successful learning in this way.
Unfortunately, said student above has not responded to any communication (as previously stated) nor have they completed any work remotely so your situation is not comparable. I’m very sorry you’ve been dealt this hand and am glad you’ve been professional enough to inform your university of your circumstances so your study can continue. I think your personal comments are uncalled for.

@RampantIvy I’ve checked the analytics on my lecture recordings - they haven’t watched any of the videos in this case.
@Siepie Yes, work has come in and it has not met the LO for multiple reasons- 1 of which is they have not gone into sufficient depth in their analysis as they were asked to discuss 2/3 concepts and this person has done 7 very briefly. Just waiting for the IM to confirm. This is actually an anonymous submission so I can’t say for certain it is theirs but having marked the rest it’s so far below in quality.

I totally understand your point

However, if they pass, they pass 🤷‍♀️

My ds1 is a 1st year at an RG University and he tells me the attendance level is horrendous. Some seminars it's him, the lecturer and maybe 2 other students

I assume these will be the students who struggle/panic next year because they haven't engaged at all with the foundation year?

@marblemad And regarding my mental health comment, if a student has legitimate MH concerns there should be evidence in the form of perhaps a conversation with a GP, student wellbeing or a support plan in place. To just bandy it around as an excuse for complete non attendance in 3rd year when they said nothing in their first 2 years, makes a mockery of those who do suffer with their mental health.

💯

At DD's university consistent non attendance triggers a welfare check. Has this taken place?

I agree that too many people use poor mental health as an excuse, which then makes it even more difficult for people with genuine mental health conditions.

ChiswickFlo It must be difficult for students who have spent most of the last two years of their education studying at home. They will have got out of the habit of leaving their place of residence to be educated.

DD started university in 2019, so she only missed lectures when she was ill. After everything went back to F2F in September last year she said it was far better to attend lectures (and meet up with friends) than to stay in her flat to watch them online.

I think that's what ds and I don't understand tbh...

Ds did most of his a levels remotely due to covid like many others.

Surely young people would be better off and feel better if they left their bedrooms/studies and met people and talked? Ds certainly does. But it takes effort, no doubt

🤷‍♀️

I wonder of universities need to start running "reintroduction" activities if its that bad?

Surely young people would be better off and feel better if they left their bedrooms/studies and met people and talked?

Research has shown that it is better for the mental health of most students to attend. Studying remotely is so isolating.

I wonder of universities need to start running "reintroduction" activities if its that bad?

It is worth thinking about.

@ChiswickFlo For a couple of years before covid, my department made a real effort to run sociability/integration/how-to sessions for students, especially first years. All times of the day were tried, from breakfast the first week of lectures, lunchtime activities, afternoon tea, evening socials. I could count on my fingers the numbers who showed up to each, out of 250+ on the course. If we ran ‘reintroduction’ activities I have a horrible feeling it would be similar, though I can absolutely see your point & agree. Student attendance has been horrendous for a number of years and Covid has made it even worse. But I don’t know what the solution is. I do favour an attendance requirement, at least in the first year, but I know not everyone does.

Sigh.
Yeah.
Similar turn out for catch up stuff at secondary schools too.
So difficult

www.bbc.com/news/education-61735272

So, so worrying.

Hopefully the students who have taken a gap year working and studying will fare better this September when starting at Uni after all the Covid upheaval for their GCSES and A Levels

Be interesting to see the difference

If students are marked on assessments and awarded a degree based on the results, then attendance isn't relevant, and you can't refuse to mark.

What you should do is award a certain % of marks for class attendance like my uni did (with exceptions made for medical absences or absences where an effort was made to catch up).

But you can't just make up your own rules.

Interesting that he commuted. I think this is a big problem for many of our students too as we have a large proportion of students who live at home (London). They come in, attend their classes, go home again, often without much interaction. Timetabling doesn’t help either: often the first class(es) to be dropped are ones that require students to be in first thing in the morning: in many cases, students have told me it’s not the time per se, but that they would need to get a peak-time train, which is both expensive and often uncomfortable to travel in. Ours have no control over their timetable: to give the illusion of absolute free choice of modules, timetables are constructed over the summer & are often bad for both students and staff, think 1 class a day over four days for example. I think if students picked modules knowing when it would run, it would make a difference, for us at least. Student MH is awful, but many circumstances around them are making it worse, like not feeling in control of their schedules.