Living far away - am I insane?

[Whatisthisthing87]

Hi, I thought I would post here because I think someone who doesn't work in academia doesn't necessarily understand how our job works.
So, here's the thing. I am a lecturer at a university in Expensive Town (don't want to say which one because it's outing but trust me, it's expensive). I know for a fact that I can't afford to buy anything more than a grotty flat in Expensive Town and I don't want to rent forever. I am also in a department where people aren't in that much and I don't really have a bustling social life in said town. I also don't feel inspired by towns/villages around the area.

I could buy in Home Town, where I have family and other connections. Home Town also has a university where I could apply if any jobs came up but their salary scales are a bit lower so I might have to take a modest paycut. Home Town is about 2.5 hours on the train (plus a short bus ride) from Expensive Town and the costs of commuting would be outweighed by what I save in costs.

I teach 2 days a week for 16 weeks of the year and 1 day a week for another 4 weeks. I have been there a while and no longer feel the need for presenteeism. I never see most of my colleagues if I do go in during the holiday periods so I'm not the only one. So it's not the same as someone who has a job where they are in the office every week, all year (which is why I posted on here rather than on the main boards). I can work on the train or, exceptionally, could stay in an airbnb for 3 nights if I need to be up for longer. I've known colleagues with longer commutes in previous places (eg someone commuting from Staffordshire to Kent and also Belfast to Kent, although these people stayed over during the week).

So, am I mad? I figure that as it's not every day and not even for half of the year, that it's doable. I will be much happier in a nice house than in a horrible rented flat. And I will continue to look out for jobs at Home Town University and also ones at a uni an hours train ride from Home Town.

and the costs of commuting would be outweighed by what I save in costs

Sorry, by this I mean that I will be better off financially buying a house and paying my mortgage than paying rent. The total commuting costs are around £1,500 a year, which I can easily afford. My mortgage would be lower than the rent I pay in Expensive Town.

Actually, sorry, commute will be about £2,500. Still something I can afford without too much stress though and I know London commuters can pay £5,000 for a season ticket so it's def lower than that.

It's a no brainer. I was lucky to be able to walk to our university as even during the pandemic the type of teaching I do required face to face but I worked with plenty who didn't have the same teaching requirements and even moved to other UK countries. If you take things like parking spaces into account (which are non existent in our uni to anyone who doesn't commute from Mars), an intermittent commute from your own home in your home town is a no brainer.

i suppose the downside is if they change the teaching times to in fact spread over 5 days a week?

(i get the pain, only a student but having to travel across london for 1 hour class or a 30 min "catch up" just seems a waste of time via me participating on zoom and saving all that travel time -

and i know the downsides of zoom classes but I am usually the only one who actually speaks in those classes anyway - plus has camera on)

As someone who line manages academics who live some distance away from campus, I would say that this can cause problems and resentments as I often have to remind colleagues of their commitments and that living a distance away from campus doesn't absolve them from the myriad other things that we need to cover (open days, graduation, PGR upgrades, meetings (now moving more f2f)), and nor can I organise the teaching timetable to suit them. So please don't expect your colleagues to cover these things for you or to come in on their usual wfh day to coincide with your day on campus for things like PGR supervisions, upgrades, etc. just because they live closer to campus (which could still be an hour away, as few academics live near campus where I work).

@Uniformity

It's a no brainer. I was lucky to be able to walk to our university as even during the pandemic the type of teaching I do required face to face but I worked with plenty who didn't have the same teaching requirements and even moved to other UK countries. If you take things like parking spaces into account (which are non existent in our uni to anyone who doesn't commute from Mars), an intermittent commute from your own home in your home town is a no brainer.

Thank you! Yes, at a previous place, I could also walk to work, which was lovely, but I currently live about 4 miles from campus (it's too expensive to live closer) which means 2 buses (totalling an hour) or sitting in my car in horrible traffic and stressing over how I will park my car (like you, our parking spaces are at a premium).

Thank you for reassuring me that it's doable. I should also say I don't have kids and am not planning on having any, so no issues to consider there. I was just getting so depressed about the cost of buying in Expensive Town (it's almost London-prices) and realising I could get a lovely little terraced house in Home Town and be closer to family. Same sort of terrace would be £700k in Expensive Town.

For 36 train journey's, you'd be bonkers to give up the chance of living near your family. Better still if the 2 days were next to each other, and you could crash somewhere (travel lodge??) between the face to face working days.

Would the face to face hours ever get distributed differently, requiring more on site working, and less full days working remotely?

At my current place, that would be unlikely because the timetable is pretty set in stone and I tend to do large blocks of teaching rather than little bits on different days. I know what it will be for the next academic year, at least. But I take your point and I will consider that.

@GCAcademic

As someone who line manages academics who live some distance away from campus, I would say that this can cause problems and resentments as I often have to remind colleagues of their commitments and that living a distance away from campus doesn't absolve them from the myriad other things that we need to cover (open days, graduation, PGR upgrades, meetings (now moving more f2f)), and nor can I organise the teaching timetable to suit them. So please don't expect your colleagues to cover these things for you or to come in on their usual wfh day to coincide with your day on campus for things like PGR supervisions, upgrades, etc. just because they live closer to campus (which could still be an hour away, as few academics live near campus where I work).

Thank you, that is something I have thought about - whether I would be seen as taking the piss (although I have one colleague 4 hours away and one 2 hours away already). I wouldn't dream of making others cover and I am fully prepared to do open days and stuff like that. My one PGR student is distance-learning anyway and I don't have that many meetings. But this would be an instance where staying at an airbnb might be an option some weeks, if I need to be in mid-week. My normal teaching days are Tuesday and Friday.

I guess by looking for other jobs, this might be temporary anyway. It's just that the thought of buying something here (would have to be a small flat in an unsafe area) or renting long-term is filling me with misery!

@MaizeAmaze

For 36 train journey's, you'd be bonkers to give up the chance of living near your family. Better still if the 2 days were next to each other, and you could crash somewhere (travel lodge??) between the face to face working days.

Would the face to face hours ever get distributed differently, requiring more on site working, and less full days working remotely?

Thank you! Sadly, the teaching days are Tue and Fri so not next to each other. However, travelodge is definitely an option for those times that I do have to be in several days. As for whether it will be distributed differently, that's hard to say (as I guess it could be) but I have been here for 4 years and it's been the same the whole time. This isn't something that has just changed due to the pandemic.

It sounds like you are planning to buy a season ticket from your OP?

One of the problems I have with some of my staff is that they buy cheap advance train tickets and then when additional things crop up they tell me that the will only be getting in at (say) 11am, and then they are booked on a train to leave at 4.00pm, that they "suppose" they could change the train ticket but it will cost them a lot of money, etc. It's very annoying!

@GCAcademic

It sounds like you are planning to buy a season ticket from your OP?

One of the problems I have with some of my staff is that they buy cheap advance train tickets and then when additional things crop up they tell me that the will only be getting in at (say) 11am, and then they are booked on a train to leave at 4.00pm, that they "suppose" they could change the train ticket but it will cost them a lot of money, etc. It's very annoying!

I'd look at the prices and check whether a monthly season ticket would be more feasible but otherwise, it would be individual fares (but not for specific trains, just a day return type of thing). Also, I swear I'm not the type to make a fuss like that. My normal train would get in at 8.30 and I have no 9 am teaching starts. If I do have to be in early for whatever reason, I'd stay over the night before.

Maybe I will hit up jobs.ac.uk and look for stuff nearer, although I quite like where I am at the moment and am comfortable in my dept.

Oh dear … I also was about to say it’s a no brainer - you should definitely move. (Pretty sure we can all narrow down the identity of Expensive Town to one of two!)

But GCAcademic’s irate frustration is powerfully persuasive. So I’d say move, but only if you’re fully committed to uncomplaining willingness to overnight in Expensive Town whenever required. To which end it might be a good idea to sort out a pied-à-terre there - either a friend / colleague who will keep a bed free for you, or a room somewhere else.

@TottersBlankly

Oh dear … I also was about to say it’s a no brainer - you should definitely move. (Pretty sure we can all narrow down the identity of Expensive Town to one of two!)

But GCAcademic’s irate frustration is powerfully persuasive. So I’d say move, but only if you’re fully committed to uncomplaining willingness to overnight in Expensive Town whenever required. To which end it might be a good idea to sort out a pied-à-terre there - either a friend / colleague who will keep a bed free for you, or a room somewhere else.

Yep, one of the obvious two! Very pretty but more or less out of reach on a normal (especially sole) income. And I just don't feel at home there, which admittedly might be pandemic-related because I spent a lot of that time elsewhere. Ah well, thank you all for your thoughts. Something to think about. I would definitely be uncomplaining in willingness to stay overnight if necessary and that's a good idea to ask around to see if someone has a spare room (otherwise, I know a couple of people who rent out spare rooms for quite cheap via airbnb).

I would do it. You sound considered and flexible in your views. Even a few nights staying over is worth it as you could plan in advance for your train tickets etc

Well I am aware of one academic who comuted from new Zealand to northern europe. Now that was nuts! And certainly caused the kind of problems gcacademic highlights.

@bookish83

I would do it. You sound considered and flexible in your views. Even a few nights staying over is worth it as you could plan in advance for your train tickets etc

Thanks. I wouldn’t consider it if I had a ‘normal’ job where I was in 48 weeks a year but academia is a bit different I think. I am flexible and often help colleagues out as it is, so I think it’s unlikely that I won’t pull my weight (plus the level of weight I’ve pulled in the past for male colleagues especially means I think I’m owed a little bit of slack!).

@Mendingfences

Well I am aware of one academic who comuted from new Zealand to northern europe. Now that was nuts! And certainly caused the kind of problems gcacademic highlights.

Wow! Yeah, that really is nuts. At least I’m in the same country 😂

Apart from academic staff, I have no idea how universities in certain places can recruit cleaners, catering staff, admin staff and all the others who are in five days a week!
I know someone who commutes between home in the far south of Ireland and a university to the west of London.

My partner does exactly this. Uni in Expensive (dull, far away from everything) Town, but nobody actually lives there. They all commute & Airbnb. One colleague lives in Berlin!

It’s fine. Get research funding asap & you won’t have to there at all! 😁

I wouldn’t consider it if I had a ‘normal’ job where I was in 48 weeks a year but academia is a bit different I think.

This depends on subject area. I don't see how academics in my area could research, run their groups and supervise their PhD students without being in most days every week. And it would be difficult to attend all the required departmental and university meetings, meet their tutees, and do all the other things described by GCAcademic in just two teaching days per week during termtime.

@eggandonion

Apart from academic staff, I have no idea how universities in certain places can recruit cleaners, catering staff, admin staff and all the others who are in five days a week! I know someone who commutes between home in the far south of Ireland and a university to the west of London.

Wow that’s a long commute! I can see why people do that though, especially as many academics move institutions a lot. Moving house is expensive and moving to a brand new area is really hard. The renting vs buying thing also worries me. I’m not prepared to screw myself financially by not getting on the property ladder (it’s harder the older you get as well). I’ve already made sacrifices for my career and I don’t want to get to 68, still in rented and my paltry pension not being enough to cover my rent. I know that sounds somewhat dramatic, I realise! I guess if it really wasn’t working out and I wanted to stay at my current Uni/couldn’t find a different job, I could rent my house in Home Town out (although I can’t afford a nice rental in Expensive Town either, ha!).

@astoundedgoat

My partner does exactly this. Uni in Expensive (dull, far away from everything) Town, but nobody actually lives there. They all commute & Airbnb. One colleague lives in Berlin!

It’s fine. Get research funding asap & you won’t have to there at all! 😁

Ooh yeah that would be nice! I am due a sabbatical soon anyway. Thanks for the reassurance.

@acfree123

I wouldn’t consider it if I had a ‘normal’ job where I was in 48 weeks a year but academia is a bit different I think.

This depends on subject area. I don't see how academics in my area could research, run their groups and supervise their PhD students without being in most days every week. And it would be difficult to attend all the required departmental and university meetings, meet their tutees, and do all the other things described by GCAcademic in just two teaching days per week during termtime.

Yes, it is undoubtedly affected by this. I co-supervise just one PGR, who is distance learning, we don’t see tutees outside semester times and our dept meetings are approx once a month during term time but have been online since the pandemic. But I can def see how it would be really tough if you were in STEM and had a team of PGRs to supervise.

I commute an hour and a half, I teach at 9am and I can easily get in for that. Staying late is harder and I often need to leave work drinks and evening dos a bit early, which probably doesn't help my career, but it's either that or uprooting my entire family to live in a bedsit.