Academic common room
Living far away - am I insane?
Whatisthisthing87 · 13/03/2022 11:03
Hi, I thought I would post here because I think someone who doesn't work in academia doesn't necessarily understand how our job works.
So, here's the thing. I am a lecturer at a university in Expensive Town (don't want to say which one because it's outing but trust me, it's expensive). I know for a fact that I can't afford to buy anything more than a grotty flat in Expensive Town and I don't want to rent forever. I am also in a department where people aren't in that much and I don't really have a bustling social life in said town. I also don't feel inspired by towns/villages around the area.
I could buy in Home Town, where I have family and other connections. Home Town also has a university where I could apply if any jobs came up but their salary scales are a bit lower so I might have to take a modest paycut. Home Town is about 2.5 hours on the train (plus a short bus ride) from Expensive Town and the costs of commuting would be outweighed by what I save in costs.
I teach 2 days a week for 16 weeks of the year and 1 day a week for another 4 weeks. I have been there a while and no longer feel the need for presenteeism. I never see most of my colleagues if I do go in during the holiday periods so I'm not the only one. So it's not the same as someone who has a job where they are in the office every week, all year (which is why I posted on here rather than on the main boards). I can work on the train or, exceptionally, could stay in an airbnb for 3 nights if I need to be up for longer. I've known colleagues with longer commutes in previous places (eg someone commuting from Staffordshire to Kent and also Belfast to Kent, although these people stayed over during the week).
So, am I mad? I figure that as it's not every day and not even for half of the year, that it's doable. I will be much happier in a nice house than in a horrible rented flat. And I will continue to look out for jobs at Home Town University and also ones at a uni an hours train ride from Home Town.
Whatisthisthing87 · 13/03/2022 17:08
@Carbiesdreamhouse
Yeah I know what you mean re staying late. I think I would try to plan some weeks when I’d be in Tue-Fri and I could take the opportunity then.
I know what you mean re bedsits! Actually, I remember a former colleague of mine at my last place who used to commute over 2.5 hours and then kip on his office floor! Our place wouldn’t allow that (I wouldn’t do it anyway!) as they lock my building at about 10 but he did it for years. He said he wasn’t prepared to compromise on location and he knew he wouldn’t be happy where the Uni was located (it was slightly in the arse end of nowhere). Fair enough.
eggandonion · 13/03/2022 18:41
My husband had a colleague with a futon in his office. He had split from his wife just before being appointed, and couldn't afford a flat on top of mortgage and maintenance.
It was less than ideal, and security put a stop to it!
Nice City used to have a lot of accommodation for young staff, but I don't think anywhere helps out any more.
Phphion · 13/03/2022 18:44
Buying a house is a long-term commitment, so you need to think not just about whether it would work for you right now but whether it would work in the future.
What are your ambitions? Do you hope to get promoted?
What kind of additional responsibilities do people at the level you aspire to have, and would the commute / being in two days a week still work for you if you had those additional responsibilities?
Whatisthisthing87 · 13/03/2022 20:04
@Phphion
What are your ambitions? Do you hope to get promoted?
What kind of additional responsibilities do people at the level you aspire to have, and would the commute / being in two days a week still work for you if you had those additional responsibilities?
That's a good point. To be honest, I will probably start looking around for other things anyway, although I do like where I am for now. One negative thing about where I am now is that promotion prospects aren't wonderful, so I don't even know if it would happen. From Home Town, three other institutions are within commuting distance, so this might not be a hugely long-term thing anyway.
The thing is that buying just isn't an option in the city I work. The only area I could afford is notoriously unsafe (even though the city itself is very pretty, it has some grotty parts). I just wouldn't be prepared to live in those parts. I have been renting right on the outskirts and I resent paying £900 a month for that with no garden, not nice neighbours and nothing to show for it. If I bought in Home Town, I'd be paying down the capital and my mortgage payment would actually be lower than my current rent. Property prices keep going mad and even if I got promoted to the next level up, I doubt it would make a huge difference to my mortgage prospects in my current city. I care more about getting on the property ladder than being promoted if I am quite honest.
I do appreciate all the points about how it's not fair on colleagues but I'd also like to point out that for many years, I have been the colleague who does all the open days, goes to the functions and covers for those who can't come in. In a selfish way, I won't feel that bad if I'm not the default person for these things anymore, since they don't bring me extra pay or status. That said, of course I will still do my fair share and was thinking maybe doing Tue-Fri in an airbnb every three weeks (and coming up on the individual days in the other weeks), which will mean I am around a fair bit. It has always been like the Marie Celeste outside teaching times so I don't feel bad for not coming in then - nobody else does.
Thanks for all those who have said they have colleagues who do it. Makes me feel it's achievable.
eggandonion · 13/03/2022 21:31
We aren't in the UK now, but things like acting up allowance, and any perks went about 15 years ago, but the expectations remained.
I think budget cuts, coupled with pension issues, short contracts etc are doing massive damage to staff morale.
About 30 years ago my husband had a resarch post in a fairly unlovely place, but housing was pretty cheap. As a result a lot of older staff (aged 40!) either lived a massive commute away or had a second home to spend holidays in.
murmuration · 15/03/2022 10:12
I'd go for it.
We've actually got a fair number of people who live 1.5 hours by train away - a little closer. They often have a go-to B&B or other place to stay overnight if they need.
Although if you're already commuting an hour, you're essentially adding 1.5 hours. Would you find it useful time, for example, to work? I found it amusing that I had a 80-90 minute bus commute but still lived 'close', and people who had the 1.5 hour train journey were considered to be 'far way', yet it took each of us about the same amount of time to get home. (I now live closer - only ~30 minute bus journey, much happier with that.)
Whatisthisthing87 · 15/03/2022 11:18
@murmuration
We've actually got a fair number of people who live 1.5 hours by train away - a little closer. They often have a go-to B&B or other place to stay overnight if they need.
Although if you're already commuting an hour, you're essentially adding 1.5 hours. Would you find it useful time, for example, to work? I found it amusing that I had a 80-90 minute bus commute but still lived 'close', and people who had the 1.5 hour train journey were considered to be 'far way', yet it took each of us about the same amount of time to get home. (I now live closer - only ~30 minute bus journey, much happier with that.)
Yes I’d definitely find the train journey useful time to catch up on admin and updating lecture slides. Things often put off when working at home. Or if I was tired, I’d catch up on box sets on my laptop.
I know what you mean about living close but having a long commute. I’m currently about 5 miles from my campus. Too far to walk, too dangerous to cycle so it’s bus or driving but it’s two buses rather than one. They often don’t coordinate that well so I will be hanging around in the town centre in the cold and dark waiting for the connecting one. Traversing the city by car isn’t fun either, unless it’s late in the evening and no other traffic.
I think I will go for it, while also looking out for jobs at closer places. They say we should remember that academia doesn’t love you back and I think this is true here. Paying large amounts of rent for somewhere I don’t like living just to stay close to my job that doesn’t require constant presence anyway doesn’t make sense.
reshetima · 15/03/2022 16:19
I also have colleagues who do this as my own institution is in a very expensive part of an expensive town. What works for my closest colleague is that she has regular days in, so we know when to look for her in her office, and that when she comes in, she's here from mid-morning to late afternoon, or even evening, so she (and we) make the most of time in person. What with the past couple of years as a precedent, I can't see anyone commenting on people doing this in the future, with the above caveats on being flexible with unexpected changes of plan.
Anyway, your life outside of work is just as important: if you're not happy where you are now, especially if you're not managing much of a social life in the neighbourhood, you should consider that just as much as anything else, in my opinion.
QuebecBagnet · 15/03/2022 16:25
What happens when you have a student who wants a f2f tutorial at the last minute and can’t make one of the two days you’re going to be in? Or are you confident you could do that sort of support online?
I’d just be nervous that your timetable could change in future years. And suddenly you’re in 3 or 4 days a week. Is there not somewhere cheaper but not so far away?
Whatisthisthing87 · 15/03/2022 17:12
@QuebecBagnet
I’d just be nervous that your timetable could change in future years. And suddenly you’re in 3 or 4 days a week. Is there not somewhere cheaper but not so far away?
Just because the student wants a F2F tutorial at the last minute doesn’t mean they get one! I have set weekly office hours that I can determine myself. If I were to be accommodating for a last minute request and one outside office hours, I’d tell the student it had to be online and they would have to accept that. I doubt many academics drop everything and rush into work on a day they WFH because a student is insisting on a f2f tutorial. I should also stress that during normal times, I WFH 3 days a week and am in on two, it’s just I’m lots closer geographically.
If my timetable changed (which seems quite unlikely and has already been fixed for the next academic year), that wouldn’t be too much of an issue. I tend to do lots on few modules rather than the other way around. So I would then just change the days I was in. And it’s about the same price to do 2 day returns a week as it is to drive up and stay over 3 nights in an Airbnb and be in Tue-Fri, so I plan to alternate those options anyway. So some weeks, I will actually be in far more than any of my colleagues are and far more than I am at the moment.
As for whether there is somewhere cheaper and closer, not really anywhere where I know anyone or want to live. There is a nice city about 1.5 hours drive away (with traffic, easily 2) but the issue there is a) I’d have to drive every time because anywhere I’d be able to afford would be far from the train station and b) the prices are really high there and I think I’d be priced out, honestly. There are other uninspiring commuter-town type places where I might be able to find somewhere but I’d still be looking at a commute and I’d know literally nobody in those towns. And I’d be resentful that I was living somewhere I didn’t want to live for a job where I’m looking at applying for other things anyway.
Whatisthisthing87 · 19/03/2022 13:24
@Longcovid21
No, there is nothing in my contract about living close. I find it pretty distasteful that universities, with their reliance on fixed term contracts, would feel it necessary to include clauses like that. I have current colleagues who live far away and I had at my last institution too (including one in a different UK country). Sadly I can’t afford a pied a terre, it will be enough of a push to buy a house. I don’t intend to neglect any of my duties (and during term time there would be several weeks where I’d be in 4 days a week) although I understand the line manager perspective (although I think a lot of that is based on concern about what could happen, ie that I’d demand the timetable were changed or I’d refuse to be a personal tutor or do open days). My response will be to ramp up the job search in that event so that the distance is no longer an issue.
CleverKnot · 21/03/2022 12:05
I worked for a Uni in midlands in late 1990s -- only being in the town for lectures / 3-4 days/week was very common among faculty and indeed among other professionals in the town. There were people who literally just rented a lodger's room 3-4 nights/week. These part-timers owned homes & had families living 1-4 hours drive away.
if it was common in 1999 then I bet it's wildly more common now.
Whatisthisthing87 · 22/03/2022 06:47
@Longcovid21
No and no plans to. I do realise it’s not possible to do with kids. Anyway, I shall crack on with the job hunt so that my commute becomes a more normal one.
Thanks @CleverKnot that’s really helpful to hear that it was common even over 20 years ago. Airbnbs are plentiful in my city and I could also look into a regular lodger arrangement. Someone I know in another faculty runs a cheap Airbnb in her home so I could ask her if I can just book it every week during term time or something.
ExMachinaDeus · 24/03/2022 11:34
I've been on both sides of this and agree with everything @GCAcademic says. As an HoD, I got sick of long-distance commuters grumbling about costs etc. Yet I also understand the need to keep relationships going, family life etc.
I had a job for a decade in a department/university I loved working at, but in a small town I did not want to live in whatsoever. I would have had no life. I commuted 2 hours each day each way, sometimes 6 days a week, sometimes only 2 or 3. For a few years, I taught on a Masters (in Women's Studies, that rare unicorn!) in which the seminars ran 19:30-21:30 - I bargained with the students to start a little earlier & not have a break, so we finished at 21:00, which gave me time to get to the station for a 21:30 train.
I was generally exhausted by Saturday, but it was worth it t keep my life in the big city.
And in that job, I was quite proud that no-one realised I didn't live in the small town. I think that's the aim: if you commute, it's your choice, and you need to take responsibility for that.
XXuserXX · 24/03/2022 12:41
if you commute, it's your choice, and you need to take responsibility for that.
To some extent I agree, however it's not always as simple as that. I commute, not because I want to live in a different place, but because I want to live with my long-term partner (like many women in STEM I have a 'two body problem'). I do my fair share of weekend open days, and don't expect teaching and important meetings to be scheduled around my commute. However there are some people (always men actually) who expect me to work around their childcare constraints, but won't give my commuting constraints the same consideration.
FedUpAcademic · 26/03/2022 10:23
I did it and don't regret it. I have two small DCs and find it easier as I have family and friends here to help. When we lived close to campus they were in nursery/childcare for 10 hours a day, whereas now they spend more time with their DGPs or me and DH. We're more rural too so have a totally different lifestyle. Much more time spent outdoors, great community vibe and more freedom for the DCs.
I teach in blocks too; when I have a couple of long days together, or a 9am start, I stay over at a local B&B which is a nice wee break! I always ensure I attend for any F2F work but Teams has changed how we do things (for the better IMHO!) so there's not the same demand.
My only issue is that now I have been able to WFH and experienced 'the other side' I don't want to go back to the office! I don't mind the commute (I have a huge stack of podcasts I love listening to) but now we've been able to work from home it seems pointless to spend the time commuting to sit at a desk all day when I could do that from home. There are a few vocal colleagues who are adamant that you can't be as productive or effective from home, though my track record shows the opposite.
In short, you work to live, you don't live to work. Choose life and make work fit, not the other way round! Good luck x
Whatisthisthing87 · 29/03/2022 11:38
Thanks for your thoughts. Actually, I would quite like it if my colleagues/line-managers didn't know where I lived as I would hate for it to become an 'issue' in their heads. However, I obviously don't want to lie to them so if it does come up in conversation, I will tell them, but I'm certainly not going to call a meeting with them to announce that I am moving. Obviously I will update address and stuff with HR.
I get what you mean about male colleagues, XXuserXX. For the past decade or so that I have worked in academia, I have bent over backwards to suit other colleagues, be it for commuting, childcare or just their convenience. I have never asked for any special dispensation in return so I will not feel bad for putting up more boundaries. That said, I don't intend to spend much less time at the office than I currently do so there won't be a notable difference but if any of my line managers start to raise 'concerns', you bet I will raise the fact that at least two of my male colleagues live very far away, never attend social events or most meetings, and nobody raises an eyebrow.
FedUpAcademic that is great that you have managed to make it work for you, especially with kids too. You're so right that we shouldn't live to work.
sonjadog · 26/04/2022 07:11
I work 6 hours away from where I live. I teach on courses that have blocks of teaching, so I end up with 8 days intensive teaching a term. I also teach two online classes. I miss teaching the undergraduate once a week courses, but this works better for me. Due to other commitments (I run a research group among other things), I stay up by the university for some weeks at a time. I rented a tiny one room flat for a while but now have bought. So I am here about two weeks on, and two weeks away, and then when the term ends I am just back at home. I do miss living in my home full time, but the job is better where I am than in any closer university, so it works well enough for me.
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