Why do you need a degree to become a teacher? Is there any way around that?

[GloriousTeaParty]

I've got good gcse and A-levels but had a child straight after college and didn't end up going to university. I've done a HND in a subject relevant to my job and established a career in a field which people usually associate with graduates and requires a great deal of writing reports and use of English. I would really like to retrain to become an English teacher but understand that to get into that I have to have a degree, even though the degree could be in a subject which isn't relevant. It seems unfair that someone who studied something completely irrelevant to the job can train to teach the subject but I can't despite having a fairly good background in the subject. I appreciate teacher training qualifications and experience would need to be acquired but not why O must have a degree. Could someone tell me if I have missed a different way in, or is this the case?

You do know that there are lots of very experienced teachers out there without degrees?

Not that many left any more I don't think? The non-grad route has been closed for a while? (academies etc not withstanding)

Maybe I am missing something about a degree that I could only understand by doing one.

At a very basic level, a degree (should) say to an employer, “this person has the required intelligence/skills/level of education to do x’

Just as having an MSc puts a person at a certain educational level, and a PHD puts a person at a certain educational level.

In some areas, it doesn’t matter what the degree is in, it’s a marker that a person is capable of certain things. In other areas, it’s that plus the actual knowledge/skill/experience that was given that counts.

To be a teacher, the standard is that you’re qualified to degree level or above. These days degree level seems to be the very basic qualification - so if you want to be a teacher you will need to get a degree.

If you were teaching, say John Donne or Milton, at A level, you would find it hard without an English or other humanities degree.

That said, a lot of English degrees would regard anything written pre-C19th as too old and difficult to bother with. ☹️

My degree in Primary Education Theory was of an enormous help when I took on a PGCE. The years I'd spent studying child development, theory, the curriculum, how children learn and social inclusion put me streets ahead of other candidates.

My degree in Primary Education Theory was of an enormous help when I took on a PGCE. The years I'd spent studying child development, theory, the curriculum, how children learn and social inclusion put me streets ahead of other candidates.

In order to be able to teach you should really be able to write at least at an undergraduate level. It's not just about the course content but surround skills like essay structure, research and referencing, building and analysing an argument etc. I know that it may seem to you that your knowledge is up to scratch but if you haven't even been to university how would you know. A degree doesn't tak long and can even be five online if you want to. Just do it.

The PGCE is to give you the pedagogical skills to teach. It's not to impart subject knowledge.

You don't have the subject knowledge to teach Shakespeare, war poems, Victorian literature etc - that's what English teachers actually teach, not how to write nice sentences. Do a degree.

There really aren't lots of teachers without degrees _ there are older generation teachers with Cert eds and no first degrees. the youngest of these about at the moment is probably in their 60s.

There have been a smattering teaching things like college type and vocational courses (dying out in schools) and the guy that teaches out agric course . I have never in all my years met an English teacher without a degree. When I first started there were a few with CertEds. they taught the younger years, never A level.

We could (and have on MN!) discuss till the cows come home the 'worth' of a degree in teaching but the fact is you need one .

And you might enjoy it!

I teach a secondary subject (in Scotland) where there are 2 routes to qualification. Either you complete your undergrad degree in the subject (with very strict requirements in terms of modules completed) then a pgde, or you do a 4 year BEd where you combine the subject content with your teaching requirement. Without exception the best teachers I've worked with in my subject went the pgde route - those who did the BEd seem to lack the depth of knowledge gained from the subject degree.

If I'm being honest you don't come across as being passionate about teaching; perhaps you are (and you will need to be!) but you're not displaying the enthusiasm for furthering your own learning or an understanding of why that is so important which are so vital in this career.

I get your point. It's not that I wouldn't love to do an English degree, I really would, but for practical reasons (including that I'll soon need to be helping fund DC through their own degrees) I wanted to see whether there was an alternative route. I had thought some people taught English without a degree in the subject of English which is why I believed it might not be required. It does of course make complete sense that the best way would be to get an English degree it just does mean for me it has to go on the back burner a bit longer.

What job do you do now op?

Tbh I'd not be happy with someone with as low a level of education as a hnd teaching my child. I do think it's essential to be a graduate.

The main thing about a degree is that it demonstrates that you have acquired and utilised higher level critical thinking skills. In addition you need subject specific knowledge. If you haven't studied English above A-Level then you haven't acquired the subject knowledge and you also don't have a qualification which enables you to demonstrated higher level critical thinking. It's entirely appropriate not to admit you to teacher training.

If you study through the OU you will be able to transfer 60-120 points of your HMD towards a degree in English. That means you could get an appropriate degree within two years.

I would crack on then, it might be possible to start your OU modules almost immediately?? When will your children be at uni? At least if you find out the novels on the syllabus you could start reading them

Go for it! A degree will open up more sections of the job market for you anyway.

There are lots of (usually) women out there without degrees because of earlier life circumstances who would make excellent teachers. Lots of the do gain school experience first as TAs and so on and the try to complete degrees. For may this does become a mountain to climb.

My friend has just qualified at the age of 47 after years of hard work and commitment but she got there. I think you have to really want to do it - and for many that is about being prepared to make personal and financial sacrifices. often the justification is that you are being an inspiring role model to your own DCs.

Op I’m not sure you’re actually reading and taking in the answers, it’s like you don’t want to hear and are throwing a strop. You were told to get a related degree with the right level of content, but yes you would need a degree, it didn’t have to be specifically and only English, there are other associated degrees.

I think you need you need to do some research into this. You say you're passionate about it, really want to teach English, yet seem to have absolutely no idea what that involves - you think writing reports at work should make you suitable!! How can you be passionatr about doing something you clearly don't know much about?

Bluntness I don't see how I'm throwing a strop. I am taking the comments on board and do understand what has been said and it all makes good sense.

I had hoped there was another way (e.g. a combined teaching/English course) as a degree isn't really open to me at the moment. That said I do understand, particularly now having read the comments, why one is required.

I accept that I don't have much knowledge of teaching or degrees which is why I can on here to get advice and an understanding of whether and why I would need one.

I do get it now and am not throwing a strop at all it just means I will probably have to wait a bit longer and read as much as possible in the meantime

Why can't you start an OU degree now? Your fees will be covered by loans and you can study part-time.

Bluntness by name...!

With your timescale it is possible in 4 or 5 years' time that degree apprenticeships may be introduced which award a degree and QTS. It may be that your HND and good A levels put you on their tick list. They are a bit controversial though and may well take years to complete. They will also be limited geographically to begin with.

Maybe with your HND and job (guessing something like paralegal?) you should think about being a Law teacher? This does exist. Most law teachers teach only A level (bliss!) and are generally part time.

Thanks Piggy. Degree apprenticeships would be interesting. When I make a change I want it to be the right one and I don't have the enthusiasm for law that I have for English. I'm going to give it some more thought for now as I know really I would need to do an English degree but cant take on that debt for my own purposes at the min. I'm also worried that I'd do the degree and then be no good at the teaching side of it so really think I need to try and get experience in some capacity first. I appreciate your advice it's given me plenty to think on. Thanks

The other thing you really need to think about, and which is totally lacking from your posts, is whether you have a passion for it. It's not about neatly written reports or decent spelling and grammar. Have you read and understood the classics? Do you read for pleasure? Do you read the current trends in YA? Do you go to the theatre?

You need a real love for the written and spoken word.

If you have no knowledge of teaching, I'd definitely recommend a Primary Ed degree if you want to teach primary, as the PGCE was mainly essay writing about poverty and lessons on how to bang a tambourine and jump up and down to music.

You don't need a degree to be a paralegal!
Many graduates work as paralegals as they unfortunately can't get training contracts but you don't need to be a graduate.

Yes you do need a degree to teach A level law @Piggywaspushed you can't teach law just because you've done a legal administration job. In many law colleges you also need an MA and to be a qualified lawyer.