Why do you need a degree to become a teacher? Is there any way around that?

[GloriousTeaParty]

I've got good gcse and A-levels but had a child straight after college and didn't end up going to university. I've done a HND in a subject relevant to my job and established a career in a field which people usually associate with graduates and requires a great deal of writing reports and use of English. I would really like to retrain to become an English teacher but understand that to get into that I have to have a degree, even though the degree could be in a subject which isn't relevant. It seems unfair that someone who studied something completely irrelevant to the job can train to teach the subject but I can't despite having a fairly good background in the subject. I appreciate teacher training qualifications and experience would need to be acquired but not why O must have a degree. Could someone tell me if I have missed a different way in, or is this the case?

I don't mean that the job would substitute that study. My view is just that I got good A-levels including English and have done a HND and then a job where a good level of application of English is important.

I know that doesn't give me any experience in understanding how to teach English but I do know people who are English teachers who have degrees in other subjects so was hopeful the experience and qualifications I had so far could count for something. It just seems if I had done a degree even unrelated I would be in a position to pursue the career. Maybe I am missing something about a degree that I could only understand by doing one.

To get QTS you need a degree.

It doesn’t matter what route you take. You cannot bypass the need for a degree. That’s how they decide that you have the absolute minimum knowledge and understanding of your subject to be able to share that with others to an acceptable level.

What is your HND?

The apprenticeships being considered at the moment are at the top level - ie you will need a degree to do those.

We are all telling you the same thing.

But what was your HND in?

The way you phrase it implies that you think teaching English is primarily a technical role, teaching the way the language works. You don't mention your passion for literature, just that your technical abilities are strong.

If you think of it as a technical subject, have you considered the TEFL route?

Apologies if I have misunderstood.

Most of what I use subject knowledge wise is probably based on what I myself learnt at A level and before. However, I have been immersed in that world since leaving school so have been using and developing that subject knowledge for 20 years.

I have As in French and German A level too. 20 years later , no way could I teach them beyond beginners' level.

Also if you want to train to teach in a subject that’s not closely related enjoy ugh to your degree I believe you have to do intensive top-up training in between graduating and taking the PGCE/starting Teach First/School Direct.

But you need the degree.

I think you are getting a bit of a tough time because you are being a bit evasive. What is your current job?

Maybe I am missing something about a degree that I could only understand by doing one.

Yes, I think you might be. A degree isn't just about learning subject knowledge, it's about developing critical thinking and analytical skills.

I'm a little confused as to why you are so keen to be a teacher, given that you seem to place a relatively low value on education. That's not a criticism by the way. You might have the potential to be a brilliant teacher. However, I do think you need to get a degree first!

The HND is in law. I spoke with advisors a while back when they were doing the 'train to teach' advertising as was told to top it up to a degree and that to make it up to a law degree would be fine, but I can't see how that would better qualify me to teach English.

I will look into whether there is a way to make it to an English degree. I must admit I don't have much knowledge of the university/degree system as it has not been revelant to me before.

A family member was in a not dissimilar situation and did a degree through the OU working evenings while working to get classroom experience as a TA followed by a QTS. She is now a headteacher having progressed quite quickly.

I do have a passion for the subject and always have. It's what I would have done had I gone to university but circumstance meant I followed a route that paid the bills and fitted in at the time. Now I'm finally in a place where I could make a change and just want to establish the best way to go about it.

Yes I too think you haven't understood what a degree is all about. It's not about writing good English for example.
I'm afraid you're not qualified enough. Life experience won't help you teach Hamlet at A Level.

OP, woudn't you rather somebody with a degree taught your own child? This is the way it should be!
]

www.open.ac.uk/choose/collegeroutes/building-your-hn

You might be able to use your HND credits towards a BA degree

The issue is that you seem to think that the degree requisite is about “Level of English” but it’s actualky about English as a subject - academic analysis.
I write for a living and have an A in school English but I still haven’t a clue about what my friends studying English at university did for four years. If somebody’s said “cover this book for a class” the result would be more of a book club discussion of themes and characters than a serious academic analysis. Or I’d have to use a published resource like cliff notes.

It’s all been said already, really. I’m an English teacher and it certainly requires more than the ability to write in English You need to be able to teach and analyse a huge range of literary texts from Chaucer onwards (how’s your Middle English?), including finding ways of delivering Shakespeare so that it is interesting and relevant to a whole range of ages and abilities. I have just begun teaching a Language and Literature course - can you talk comfortably and knowledgeably about dialect, idiolect and sociolect and provide examples? Can you explain the difference between iambic and trochaic pentameter to a group of bored teenagers and get them to understand it?

FWIW, I teach in an independent school, and we do very occasionally (twice in the ten years I’ve been there) take teachers without a PGCE which they then do part time in their first couple of years with us. But they wouldn’t even get looked at without a degree in the subject they were applying to teach.

As a matter of interest, what is your “fairly good background” in English Literature?

I think you're focusing on practical language skills - which are doubtless extremely important - and forgetting the language theory and literature which make up a huge amount of the subject from primary upwards. It's hard to teach grammar and literature so that your studednts get it.

I completely get that I would need to do teacher training qualifications to acquire the knowledge and skills to actually teach, but so far as I can see that is not what I would be getting by doing a degree. Is the purpose of a degree just to prove that you have a good level of English or education generally?

I don't really get where you're coming from here tbh. Have you actually looked at English degrees and how university study works? Most English teachers have a degree in English Literature or similar - it reflects an interest and in-depth study of the subject which then allows you to teach it in depth. Same with maths and probably most subjects.
You need a degree to teach in the independent sector and more schools are requiring a PGCE, working with universities to provide placements as well.
Sorry but unless your job is in something related to English like publishing, this really isn't the same as an English degree or teaching. Have you attended any open days for universities or teaching qualifications providers?

I would not want to see the teaching profession being degraded from being a graduate level job. They will be educating the next generation and they need to be well educated themselves. It isn't just about subject knowledge.

You do know that there are lots of very experienced teachers out there without degrees?

There used to be a non-graduate route I don't know if it is still available. I know a very successful head teacher who never did a degree.

Lots of jobs that are believed to be graduate jobs have non-graduate routes. You can be a solicitor or a district judge without a degree.

I get that you've managed to dodge having a degree so far in life and it hasn't been an issue in your job, but if you want to be a teacher in a school, then you should expect schools to value academic education.

I really hope that you do become a teacher, I'm sure you will get there.

Glorious tea party you may find if you approach the open university you can transfer your credit from your HND and any other professional courses and sometimes even work experience towards a degree. You then top it up with the remaining credits to get a degree. It might then be less effort to get a degree than you think

I'd have much more sympathy if your HND was in, say, pathology and you worked in a path lab and you wanted to teach biology. There are some circumstances that I do think that sometimes the degree requirement is a bit too much for mature students with other qualifications and skills.

I don't see how a high level of study and work in a different field to the one you fancy teaching is a basis to teach. You won't know enough about literature.

Ok I see that I will need an English degree. Thanks all for the advice