Anyone want a general chat?

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

By which title I mean, of course, that I am procrastinating and if I can't rise above it I'd love to drag you all down with me.

What are we all doing this term, and how's it going?

I'm trying to kick my book proposal into shape after yet another set of comments. I've lost track of how many times it's been 'nearly there' but I think it really is nearly there. Honest.

Re: PhD students - a Prof near retiring told me that its harder to get PhD students now than he's ever seen in his career. I've also noticed that it's getting spottier - because there are so many different methods of getting funding each with low success rates, you can't just go for one and hope you'll get it. So people put in for many different options - one fellow I know ended up with 4 PhD students all starting together, as all his options worked out that year (and you can't tell a student that they can't actually work with you after all because 3 other people also won funding!) - supervising them is all he did for the next four years, and while he got a bunch of research done, he's been out of the grant funding rounds for a while and now that they're graduated is struggling to get going again.

In my field, one grant submission a year would be the standard if you already had 2-3 grants running. 6 is definitely a lot, but 2-3 a year without any current funding is pretty normal. It's just that I've had so many years without funding they rack up, and I am doing a bit more than average... (Although I now know from sitting on funding panels that really successful people often put in 2-3 a year even with funding - there are some names I see at each meeting!)

I've changed my approach recently, and I hope that helps. When I came back from mat leave I just kept putting in grants, like I had before, but it appears the break in track record really did me in. One really stark one was a grant I submitted right before, and then again right after returning: first submission had some valid critique of the project, but said good things about me (rising trajectory, good track record, etc); second submission praised the project but said bad things about me - basically asking 'what's she done lately?' (had a baby!!) and one even said "I don't think she can do it". And it's not like they didn't know about my career break - it was right there in the application in both my CV and a special section about breaks. That pissed me off, and I kept trying the same thing but as time went on the period of doing nothing has gotten longer and longer and 'mat leave' can't explain it anymore. So now I'm submitting to seed/startup funding type things (although there isn't that many for my career stage) and trying to get preliminary work done to show that I can do things (but that's taking forever with just me at it). I do get everything (that I have control over...) read by a lot of people and respond to critiques - the one I'm about to put in, I'm currently waiting for one more bit of feedback from someone previously on that grant panel.

The other set of grants I do (probably 3/4 - 2/3) are big collaborative ones run by someone else - so not always something I can get feedback on, but usually run by big Profs and stuff who one would think knowswhat they're doing. When something like half a dozen people from the dept are all in on a grant that fails run by a Prof, at least it doesn't seem like 'my fault' :) I also keep hearing things through the grapevine: X didn't get his RC bid; Y didn't get his follow-on from charity Q; Z is about to run out of funding as nothing's come through; where X, Y and Z are Directors of Research and other well-known research big-wigs. So I'm in good company with failure. Not sure that's encouraging though...

Hi All, anybody else on the job market? I'm a post-doc on the lookout for my next gig. We're city slickers and DH wants/needs to stay here for his job, so there's not much to apply to! I'm feeling resigned to being on the hustle when my contract ends....

Yep, I'm postdoc too. We have a six week old baby, so I've a little leeway in terms of gaps in my CV, but not much. It'd be lovely to stay in the area, but realistically it's not very likely. I'm thinking a lot about doable commutes!

Congrats on your baby LRD! Are you job hunting too? That's incredibly stressful. I hope you're getting lots of help and support.

Job hunting and freelancing. It's not as awful as it might be because I have a couple of really lovely ex-colleagues who are looking after me. But yes!

We can be job market buddies on here, too, and that will help.

In fact I'm sure there must be more of us.

First job application submitted woo! Plus I've lined up some short term seed funding for January in case I don't get any work at all. It's progress at least....

Good luck! Definitely progress. I've never applied for seed funding, or much funding at all. I need to get better at navigating those applications.

I've lined up some work for next year, which will keep the wolf from the door, but still hoping for something less casual.

That's great LRD, that would give you time with your LO too.

"Seed funding" for me means having kind friends with little pots of money for small-time collaborations!

Can I join? I saw procrastination mentioned in the first post... I only just found academics corner after a while off mumsnet and have been reading all the threads and learning lots. Eg the REF para stuff up thread, useful reminder. I'm recently back from mat leave and working hard on finishing a monograph, but forever feeling like I don't work as efficiently as before (I mean a long time before - PG days - before kids). I'd like to start a thread asking how much writing people manage in a day but it would probably make me feel even more of an underachiever. Otherwise work is good

Ah, by 'friends' you mean 'exciting contacts in my extensive research network', right?

(I've been writing job apps so long I speak fluent REF.)

And yes, time with the baby won't be a bad thing.

Hi yoga, and welcome! If you want to feel like a huge overachiever, I think I have managed an average of ... drum roll ... 2 hours per day in the last couple of months! Terrible. I think I am quite good at knuckling down when it matters, but my lovely wise supervisor (a super-prolific prof) told me she thinks you can't do more than four good hours of writing in any day. I don't know if it's true, but it's very comforting to me. I think people forget that, though 4 hours sounds like very little to people who clock in at 9 and clock out at 5, we do so much other work, and those 4 hours represent really concentrated thinking if they're actual new writing. So I can believe in 4 hours as an absolute max for real, concentrated writing work.

I'd be happy with 4 hours new writing a day! Altho I wonder what kind of word count the prof meant. I am spending a lot of time writing but it is coming slowly

I write SO slowly. But I'm in STEM, so I think we don't write quite as much. But it keeps surprising me how slow first drafts are. Something like 250 words/hour.

And if you were to average how much time I spend writing over the many, many days I write nothing, I think we're on the order of minutes! So hours is amazing :)

I have finally almost finished a grant proposal. Just need to get the costings set and send in the form to get approval from my dept, plus running some last edits by collaborators. These thing with rolling deadlines are a killer - there's always something more important to do! (Like the 3 hours I spent dealing with a marking crisis today - I had meant do all the above instead!)

What sort of jobs are you looking for - postdoc, faculty, or anything? One thing I've learned from the other side is that postdoc advertisements can very ephemeral. My Uni's policy is to advertise them only for 2 weeks! I've usually managed to argue it up, but 4 weeks is the total max I've gotten. I don't know what strategy can best deal with this, other than to make sure to keep a regular eye on advertisements, and have material that can be easily tailored on hand?

Can I join? Got PhD in humanities 5 years ago (!!!). In the following years visiting lecturer and then (very luckily!) two nice postdocs. I am crazily overcommitted on work (2 books almost almost almost done, plus new project) and feel like I am always failing to catch up. But my aim is to finish book A and send proposal for book B to fancy publisher by August.Oh and I am on the job market. Working on applications 51&52. Tadaaa!

yoga - not new writing! All writing, including proofing and re-drafting.

I think that's hopeful.

I agree with murm that those hours can be slow work in terms of word count, but I don't think that is a bad thing. I know people who say they measure themselves in terms of numbers of words per hour (or per day). I can't do that.

very - hello and welcome! I am suitably intimidated by your two books.

Yes very 2 books - great stuff! I had a three yr post doc followed by permanent job since 2011 and I still haven't finished my first! Gosh that looks even worse writing it down. In my defence I've had 3 long mat leaves. But I really erred not publishing my PhD as a book. Was sick of it and keen to move onto the next project, but it's been very bitty ever since then. With 2 books imminent that should really boost your job prospects - immediately REFable

Yeah lrd, word count does not come out well for me either. If I could do murm's 250ph a few times a day a few times a week I would be v happy. I think I'm getting better tho. It's taken me a few months to get back into work after mat leave. In the sense of ideas flowing. From the sound of it you're working with a much littler one, which is v hard!

Believe me it sounds much more impressive than it is. I think it makes me look like I tend towards overcommitting myself and not being able to prioritise which is sort of true.

Against all advice I also did not go down the publish your PhD route. Book B is based on a chapter but developed into a new direction.

After 2 unsuccessful years on job market I panicked and submitted short book proposal based on rest which very unexpectedly got accepted. The same month I got a yes for a three year postdoc on a project I love, but by then I felt duty bound to effing finish book A.

So the last three years (two postdoc, one matleave) have felt like desperately trying to work on project C but having to interrupt by finishing book B which I believe in but which is getting to the stage where I just want it off my desk and book A which I believe in all honesty should not exist. Working on book A feels like warming up sick and trying to make it appealing.

So my two cents are never ever ever to commit to writing something you don't believe in.

And in terms of Reffable: I have one book under contract, one edited collection, two book chapters and 5 peer reviewed articles as well as another book and article in the pipeline, but no permanent job. I am the living proof that publications don't get you a job, but fit does.

Warming up sick - love it! An apt description for the book I'm trying to finish too (the one I started after not wanting to spend any more time on PhD topic). It was fun to start with but so many things I'd rather be doing now.

very I am appalled you haven't been offered a permanent job with so many publications. When we are hiring it always seems to come down to REF. Your postdocs are a good sign though. They don't come easily either. Do you have teaching experience?

Ha! I have an 'effing book A' too. I also didn't start out trying to publish my PhD, because I just lost the will to get back to it. So the book I'm currently finishing is a new project. I must come back to my PhD, though. I have done some editing on it, and can see how it'd work as a book, and it does actually feel more hopeful now I've had a clear space to think about it without actually working on it.

Job hunting again as my contract ends in July. Ups and downs.

• Postdoc scheme at my institution required a seventeen page application form complete with e.g. full project costings, statement of impact, lengthy research proposal. I knew I was an outsider as I'm in humanities (scheme said "PhD in health related area" but I was invited to apply as my proposed project connects to mental health), but to receive a straightforward rejection stating no feedback will be given is annoying. If we are expected to put hours into these forms, some brief feedback should be available if we want it. The process needs to be different with, say, potential candidates invited to submit a brief c.v/outline of project, and then invited to submit a full application if they get beyond that.

• Strange goings on at a Fellowship I've applied for at another institution. A month after the deadline, everyone was e-mailed "Due to a number of incomplete applications, candidates are invited to resubmit their materials by the new closing date of ...". To me, that reads very much like they want someone specific to apply. If someone hasn't got it together by the deadline, then too bad.

• Applied for a Teaching Fellowship elsewhere, moderately hopeful about an interview now I've been lecturing for a year.

• Seeing a few 'stipendiary lectureships' at Oxford. My ex-supervisor says the pay is usually awful for those. Anyone have any thoughts on these?

Other than that, I'm out of options. Papers STILL UNDER REVIEW (my discipline is one of the worst for journals effectively holding ECR's hostage).

I am SO VERY TIRED of all this. I need time to do proper research now. But I haven't got it because I have to keep applying for fixed-term things to keep afloat. And the less said about the gross inequalities in my discipline the better.

I'll plod on. I'm thinking of ways to connect what I do with other stuff. For example, I've seen a charity which employs people to teach my subject in prisons, another in schools etc. These things strike me as possibly v. rewarding and free of some of the major stresses of academia.

It sounds so much harder regarding finishing off PhD work in humanties. I published 2 of 5 possible papers from my PhD right off the bat, and another 6 years later! I've accepted the remaining 2 chapters won't ever be seen beyond my thesis. But it sounds like for humanities, its the whole thing or nothing! (Know someone else who's never published a chapter from her thesis that I keep having to reference - it would be so much easier if it was its own publication!)

I think most people publish at least a paper from their thesis. Then, it is usual to publish the thesis as a book, but not absolutely everyone does. I know someone who split his into lots of (very good) articles, and he's done perfectly well.

Sounds like someone left the applications on the train godstopper!
I guess with the epic detailed application once you've done it once you can replicate and plunder for any subsequent. Sorry they knocked you back. I once wrote to a university I applied to for a lectureship complaining i didn't think they gave it fair consideration. I submitted a few hours before the deadline on a Sunday night and had a rejection Monday morning. Even tho the position wasn't an obvious fit they could have pretended to read the whole thing after the effort gone in

I don't know much about the oxford junior lectureship. If you in humanities have you tried the BA postdoc scheme?

"you are"

Did they give you a fair reply, Yoga?

I knew it was aimed at scienc-y people, but my ex-PhD confirmed with them that I could apply. It was always remote, but as I said, they should offer the courtesy of brief feedback after an extensive application.

I am eligible for the BA Postdoc. That'll depend on getting an institution to support me in August (hopefully one of my papers will have been accepted somewhere by then) which isn't as straightforward as it sounds. Last year, there was one award in my discipline, so it's not something I'm prepared to put in a great deal of work for. I'm going to investigate if I can recycle the Wellcome postdoc app. though :)