Are Universities supportive of parents

[fr567]

For lecturers and up, what are your experiences in research and teaching? Have new DD and my experience at work has been rather negative (and very identifying so can’t really go into details). Sorry if this is quite vague, but I’m somewhat down and pissed off. It’d be nice to know if it’s just me having a hard time of it. (For info am male.)

Yes, the Head of Finance possibly could but difficult where line management is required, an urgent BACS needs signing off, an answer is needed by SLT about the impact of new legislation, etc. The other partner, however, who is an assistant head in a secondary school certainly couldn't.

I really don't buy that - it's not true. I know a deputy head who works part-time, for example. Why not? Job-sharing is possible; other competent colleagues acting up (with financial recompense, ideally!) is possible.

I have worked somewhere under a part-time manager who gave me responsibily for the equivalent of signing off the BACS on her day off. This was very possible because she was a great communicator and developer of people who gave her line increasing responsibility and development opportunities. There's nothing wrong with appropriate delegation; it's a good thing all round.

I’d echo mixed.

There’s certainly a lot of flexibility and, aside from lectures, it’s easy to come late or go early as needed, and I’m very happy to use this.

On the other hand, in my “two weeks paternity leave” I:

• Had an interview for a 1M+ grant (which I asked to be moved but wasn’t).
• Was part of a 500k grant submission.
• Did a PhD viva.
• Had a lab deadline and had to deal with all of the student emails for it.

Everyone’s very supportive which helps, but there is lots to keep up with!

I think academics lose sight of the fact that they can compress their hours whereas the registrar or head of admissions can't because they have to be available for students and academic staff five days a week and have line management responsibilities

I'm sorry, BeaufortBelle as you sound more knowledgeable about what academics do than many professional staff I work with, but this statement just shows how far from actually understanding what academics do most admin staff are.

If you think that academic staff just have lectures and seminars and don't have to be available for students and academic staff five days a week and have line management responsibilities then I suggest you need to spend some time in a Department, at the coal face.

I'm one of those academic women whose inadvertently sacrificed a private life (I can get bitter about it, but heigh ho) but I try to be a family-friendly HoD. We never have big Departmental meetings before 9:30am and never after 4pm. We try to timetable staff teaching so that they can compress into a couple of days if they need to, although they are expected to be available 5 days a week.

I've in the past suggested to one colleague that she investigate a temporary part-time contract - just for 3-5 years to get over the 'hump' of her children's early years, when she came to me to discuss her work/life balance etc. Of course, we explored all sorts of strategies, this was just one of them I suggested if she found herself in extremis - But I was told I was discriminatory and not child-friendly. Well, it's probably a fair cop - what would I know as a barren spinster?

Hmmm - I don't know what others think? I know it's about context, but still it rankled. Family-friendly is for everybody - not just women with children, I thought.

multishirking I have every sympathy for the comment that member if staff put you in.

I do appreciate the needing to be available, I really do but I also think it's easier for academics to be available more flexibly to facilitate work life balances than for professional staff. If I have to take in a John Lewis delivery between 2pm and 9pm I have to use half a day of annual leave; an academic can arrange it on their research day . Also many if our academics live 100 miles outside London or on the South Coast and commute in only two/three days a week. The professional staff simply can't do that.

I'm usually in at 8.30 and leave at about 6/6.30. I'm usually entering and leaving quite empty car parks . I also keep an eye on my emails from when I get up to when I go to bed because I understand that's when the academics deal with the mundane stuff and I think I have some respect for that.

Whilst you suggest I should spend mire time at the coal face in the departments (and I do a bit) I think it would be helpful for some of the academic staff to do a couple of weeks in the support departments when they are early careerists to see how hard some of the support staff work and how much flak they sometimes take from some of the academics. In all of my working life the nastiest and most bullying emails I've ever seen have been written by professors addressing staff they regard as minions.

on their research day if you see one of these tell me about it because I'd love to catch sight of this mythical beast.

I was once at a HEFCE funding meeting, a massive amount of money to be potentially handed out and an absolute mess in terms of organisation of the bidding process. The head of the funding body for HE started his talk to about 500 academics from round the country by apologising for taking up our summer holiday time (July meeting) and continued in this vain! He was lucky he was not lynched that day, more than one people walked out in frustration at the whole mess.

I think it would be helpful for some of the academic staff to do a couple of weeks in the support departments when they are early careerists to see how hard some of the support staff work and how much flak they sometimes take from some of the academics.

I work frequently with administrative staff. I agree some do work hard, particularly for the relatively low pay they receive. Many, many others are inefficient, work as little as possible, drop everything they are doing when the clock reaches 5 etc etc. I have been spending the Christmas period looking into massive error made by the HR department, which is potentially to cost our department 400k+ - none of the HR department are doing anything to deal with this, because they are all on annual leave. (After all, the error won't directly affect them.)

Poor performance by support staff has a major issue in all of the (top ten/top fifty in the world) universities I have worked at, both in the UK and abroad.

And seriously "research day"? Academics routinely coming in only two days per week? What university is this because I would seriously love to work there.

Well, I'm obviously not going to out myself by telling you. I'd like to know what error HR can have made that will cost a department £400,000. Perhaps you need some people of higher calibre or possibly need to seek their advice before taking action.

Or could I tell you about the times that admin staff have missed the deadlines for submitting my grant applications? Yes, more than once. But I get the bollocking/lack of pay rise for not getting any grant income ...

My dh is the lecturer, not me, but, I think he has a lot more flexibility than he would in a lot of jobs. Aside from his lectures (obv - when he has to be in the lecture theatre at a set time) and tutorials (ditto) he can work from home (apart from when he's doing lab work or using specific equipment he needs) or the office. He can arrange to go in late or leave early or take time off without having to fit in around other people.

However, I agree with people who say it is down to the particular line manager rather than "university policies" - he has an ongoing 'difference of opinion' with his Professor, who lives, breathes and no doubt eats and sleeps 'work', whereas dh chooses to do other things to get a reasonable worklife balance. dh has had to stand up for himself in several discussion over several years - but is happy to do so, as he knows he is right. There are the occasional colleagues though who think 17 hours days are acceptable......

By the time you are appointed a lecturer, there is a certain professional expectation about your commitment and the hours you put in, which don't always fit easily to wanting to have more time available at home, as you tend to want to with a new baby. So, as you don't feel able to give any more detail, it's difficult to know how reasonable or unreasonable your managers are being.

But back to the OP 's question. I did consider going it alone when my baby-hunger was at its height about 15 years ago. I think I could have managed the work bit of it as I'm good at no sleep and writing in nooks & crannies of other aspects of life, and I was on an academic management track which meant I could have rested on my research laurels for a bit. It's the research which is the consuming bit of the job I think, and the most intractable, and the least understood by non-academics (including admin staff in universities).

But - aside from a massively overscrupulous concern about having a child simply to satisfy my emotional chasms - when I looked at the maternity pay situation, I just laughed! No way could I afford it with no other support (I mean not even any family nearby or prepared to be nearby).

I think that's a glaring anomaly with other pretty well-regarded elite professions: other professionals I know received up to 6 months on a very good per centage of their salary, not just the 6 weeks at 90% then the risible SMP.

So while as an academic you have some autonomy over your time - not as much as BeaufortBelle assumes, and it's diminishing rapidly -- maternity benefits are rubbish.

That's interesting Multishirking, because my maternity benefits are pretty good: 8 weeks full pay, 16 weeks half plus SMP. I'm at an ex 1994 group University.

While it's certainly true that you can work from home/start late/finish early, my experience is that that isn't useful unless I can do it consistently and reliably. It's no good to me to know that I'll be able to finish early one day a week, if it isn't the same day each week. I need the flexibility to be consistent in order to know which nursery drop offs/pick ups I can do and when I need extended hours at nursery. In practice, that means that I need the same late starts/early finish/working from home days from year to year because our timetable doesn't get released until September- which is far too late to change childcare arrangements for October. I attempted to explain this to the head of HR when I came back from mat leave and he told me 'we don't do flexible working for academics' before strongly insinuating that I shouldn't be returning to work at all.

It's pretty usual for universities (and other educational establishments) to pay six weeks full pay, followed by 12 at half pay plus stat mat and then Stat mat until 39 weeks. There are also tweaks around the accrual of contractual holiday pay. Maternity benefits most certainly aren't rubbish.

21 years ago when I had my first child maternity leave was only six months for all women. I can't remember what the pay was because I was clever enough to have got myself into a position where it didn't matter, even without a PhD.

Most university staff have an entitlement to six months' full pay and six months' half pay in the event if serious illness along with very good pension schemes so I don't think they are that badly done by compared to others.

Most missed bid deadlines I'm aware of are due to academics not providing the information required to support departments on a timely basis and then expecting those they consider subordinate to work until 10pm or 11pm at such short notice it can't be done and sometimes when out of goodwill someone stays because they are committed the academic hasn't provided all the information required and it's impossible to pull the bid together. But never the academic's fault.

Your tone is very rude multishirking. I assume because I'm support staff in your eyes. Has it ever occurred to you that you might get a better service if you treated those you regard as your intellectual inferiors more nicely.

I do appreciate the needing to be available, I really do but I also think it's easier for academics to be available more flexibly to facilitate work life balances than for professional staff. If I have to take in a John Lewis delivery between 2pm and 9pm I have to use half a day of annual leave; an academic can arrange it on their research day .

This still doesn't make sense. Why can't you manage your time and workload so that you can work at home on one-off occasions? You have network access, as you've said you check emails at other times; you can be available on the phone as well. Why not?

It's the research which is the consuming bit of the job I think, and the most intractable, and the least understood by non-academics (including admin staff in universities).

Yes to this. Also evident in this thread.

Your Head of HR FurryGiraffe needs a kick up the backside and should have been liaising with your HoD who should have been liaising with timetabling to address this. I am aware that timetabling and some of the software is a nightmare but specifics can be loaded in advanced or pencilled in. Sometimes there has to be some flexibility on both sides to make it work and usually it's the non academics who are refused where I work, unless they reduce their fractions, because they are expected to be available on campus during core hours and if they are paid for 36 they are expected to be there for 36.

Having said that I've regularly asked someone wanting to work from home one day a week who is going to look after the baby/child and met with a very disgruntled look. In my experience as a professional and a mother you can't render a full professional service whilst also caring for under fives.

possiblefutures it isn't about managing my time, it's about being available to support my staff and academics and to set an example to other members of my team who need to be there for academics who drop in wanting copies of things, their HEA number, etc., the HoD who wants to talk to me there and then because of an issue that has arisen with a member of staff that might relate to a,student complaint. My staff are expected to be on premises and need to be, copying things like interview papers, dealing with hourly paid claims, it is helpful to be there when they need help. It's about support and leadership.

I can check emails but often I can't respond without getting information from the HR database and for all sorts of data protection reasons I can't access that remotely and don't think you'd want all of your personal details hackable in the event that a home computer didn't have an adequate firewall

But is the world really going to implode if you say, 'I'll get that to you first thing tomorrow morning when I have access to the database'?

Beaufort is was talking to the Head of HR because my HoD simply ignored my flexible working request. Totally ignored it, never acknowledged it, just didn't respond. He's usually very efficient so my assumption (supported by experience of others in the institution) is that this was a deliberate tactic to avoid formal flexible working arrangements at all costs, unless it's a fractional arrangement. By contrast the admin staff in my department seem to get pretty much whatever they want flexible working wise in terms of flexi time/compressed hours etc.

It's pretty usual for universities (and other educational establishments) to pay six weeks full pay, followed by 12 at half pay plus stat mat and then Stat mat until 39 weeks. There are also tweaks around the accrual of contractual holiday pay. Maternity benefits most certainly aren't rubbish.

Maternity leave pay varies enormously between UK universities, from basic statutory pay only to 6 months at full pay. There are far more of the former than the latter, so maternity benefits are indeed rubbish in many universities.

On a related note, female academics apparently take less maternity leave than those in other careers, particularly those in top universities. It would be useful to see how duration of maternity leave taken relates to the maternity leave pay on offer, but no one seems to have drawn that data together yet.

If multishirking doesn't get her salary costings for some academics on non standard contractual arrangements because of limited access and because of asking so close to the deadline, yes it might . But really it's about setting an example to others in my team. It's interesting though, at my university it tends to be staff in the support departments who aren't afforded flexibility - unless they want to reduce hours.

Your HoD (and university) has a statutory obligation to meet with you within 42 days of receiving your flexible working request and you should receive the outcome in writing. You also have the right of appeal. Your Head of HR should be ensuring this is dealt with properly and I'm sorry they haven't - they don't sound very professional.

Most missed bid deadlines I'm aware of are due to academics not providing the information required to support departments on a timely basis and then expecting those they consider subordinate to work until 10pm or 11pm at such short notice it can't be done and sometimes when out of goodwill someone stays because they are committed the academic hasn't provided all the information required and it's impossible to pull the bid together.

Err, no, this does not tally with my experience. we give our finance department a minimum of 3-4 weeks notice for the hour or two of work they need to do. (Standard policy in all places I have worked; applications/materials are checked by HoD and/or other senior academic to check nothing is missing.)

I politely remind them of the deadline 2 weeks or so before. I usually have to chase again to get them to meet the deadline. On several occasions there have been significant errors with the finance which required a lot of effort from me to sort out with the research council later (e.g. quoting the wrong overheads for salaries).

Other problems with HR: incorrect contracts (wrong salary, wrong position, wrong probation period, relocation expenses not consistent with tax law); issues with visas for foreign appointments (not unusual for the wrong type of visa to be applied for by the university); giving me inappropriate information about people I manage. (Although the latter is presumably being dealt with by a disciplinary procedure.)

I can't remember what the pay was because I was clever enough to have got myself into a position where it didn't matter, even without a PhD.

And you are criticising the tone of academics on this thread?

BTW I am surprised that there are no VPNs in use in this university in which academics routinely aren't in two or three days per week.

On a related note, female academics apparently take less maternity leave than those in other careers, particularly those in top universities. It would be useful to see how duration of maternity leave taken relates to the maternity leave pay on offer, but no one seems to have drawn that data together yet.

But there are many non-financial reasons for academics not taking all available maternity leave. I took very little leave but finance had nothing to do it: I felt that I couldn't leave my research group for too long, because it would not have been fair to the PhD students and ECRs who were working with me. While in principle it would have been possible for me to suspend research grants for my leave, it would not have been fair to those in my group.

Your HoD (and university) has a statutory obligation to meet with you within 42 days of receiving your flexible working request and you should receive the outcome in writing. You also have the right of appeal. Your Head of HR should be ensuring this is dealt with properly and I'm sorry they haven't - they don't sound very professional.**
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I'm perfectly aware of the statutory obligations, but in practice it isn't that simple. It isn't a case of incompetence, it's a deliberate attempt to avoid entering into formal flexible working. Yes I could have pushed and attempted to appeal, but given that the Head of HR was clearly colluding with my HoD, I wasn't going to get anywhere and all I was going to achieve was (further) damage to my career.

Bold fail there- I blame the app.