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University staff common room

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Nice new corner! Come and chat!

740 replies

NeverEverAnythingEver · 05/09/2015 09:06

We have our new board! Calling all cademics/aspiring academics/fed-up academics - come and chat!

OP posts:
murmuration · 30/09/2015 10:22

I'd always go for the higher-profile one first, unless time is really of the essence. Best case, you get in. Worst case you either get an editorial rejection pretty fast (if they do that), or you get the benefit of the reviewers comments to improve your submission to the next outlet.

I tend to work on a policy of submitting one slot above where I think something will get in, in the hopes of getting good feedback and a smooth ride on the next journal down. Getting in to the higher journal is just a lucky bonus! I haven't been at it long enough to build up enough experience, but so far it looks like it's been working fairly well. I've gotten one in to the higher one, and several more that had very little revisions on their second choice location.

Ugh. I am freezing. The workmen putting in our new heating system our currently in our corridor playing rap music. So pretty distracting for working, but I am so excited that we are actually going to get (what is hopefully) a working heating system.

BuffytheFeminist · 30/09/2015 10:29

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MedSchoolRat · 30/09/2015 19:45

Am I the only one on thread not working in humanities? (tumbleweed...)
Humanities sound like a whole 'nother world.

In my world, I would send a pre-submission enquiry email (or possibly phone call, or find a subeditor down the hall) to ask the PJJ if they are even interested. To find out if there's any point at all in the hours to get the paper into their pretty format and write a cover letter arguing why it fits with their stated remit. This can save buckets of time.

I'm not sure what timescale SEEKHP is working to, or even when REF 2020 deadlines are (end 2019?) but I would have thought there's time to formally submit to PJJ (who are complete bastards if they don't give you a decision within 4 months, imho) followed by JPJ if required, before next REF submission deadline.

Colleague had a paper rejected 13 times before acceptance, btw. It gets cited a lot now, too. My Prof2 says he doesn't start to lose heart unless something has been rejected at least 6x.

bigkidsdidit · 30/09/2015 19:59

No I'm medical sciences

BuffytheFeminist · 30/09/2015 20:00

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SeekEveryEveryKnownHidingPlace · 30/09/2015 21:18

Thank you medschool that's a really helpful post. I'm not sure what their etiquette is on asking first but I will think on that one. And yes, I think you're right about the time frame. It's just confidence imposter jitters about the potential bruising of any rejections I think. I feel like a vain fool for considering PJJ, so what are they going to think....?

murmuration · 01/10/2015 08:02

I'm in science. I've only done a few pre-submission enquiries; for the most part I don't do research that's big enough to send somewhere that actually does them :) One I did though, had about 13 places too before it found a home (partly because my postdoc supervisor kept going up after getting rejections as he thought the revision was so much better).

NeverEverAnythingEver · 01/10/2015 08:13

I'm in maths/computer science. I've never done any pre-submission enquiry! Didn't even know it's a thing ... My papers are generally accepted. Wink

Grin

One or two rejections. One sitting in someone's office for over a year now. Angry

But I don't write that many.

OP posts:
bigkidsdidit · 01/10/2015 08:20

It's very field-specific. We do presub enquiries - either to an editor or just yelling down he corridor Grin there's an editor of almost every journal we need in our department.

murmuration · 01/10/2015 08:35

Argh!!! I was going to quickly put together an exam due tomorrow before I got started on my writing today. It should just be a quick copy and paste job as everyone has sent me their questions. But, no, I've spent half an hour so far and am not half done because Word has crashed something like 5 times already. I really hate it when ridiculous things like this take my time.

SeekEveryEveryKnownHidingPlace · 01/10/2015 09:25

there's an editor of almost every journal we need in our department

Gosh I'm jealous! Must be great to have such immediate possibilities for discussion and support!

Anyway - I'm about to set the old pomodoro timer and get cracking revising this thing to fling at the PJJ. They can only say no in a really cutting way that will send me into a tailspin of self-doubt right?

BuffytheFeminist · 01/10/2015 10:01

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SeekEveryEveryKnownHidingPlace · 01/10/2015 10:20

Awesome, Buffy Grin.

The last feedback I had was from the 'Judean Journal' - they took three months pretty much to the day and were extremely constructive - really helped me lick things into shape. I kind of want to just keep lobbing stuff to them, but am trying to get out of comfort zone!

MedSchoolRat · 01/10/2015 11:54

I suspect speed of reply correlates strongly with impact factor. The Lancet has no problem giving a swift boot to the stuff I write Grin. The Journal of People of Judea Playing Justly (JPJPJ) can take 6 months easily. Presumably this comes down to whether anyone can be bothered to review for JPJPJ. I've just agreed to review something for a JPJPJ. My good deed for the year, I suppose.

My area of research goes stale after ~ 10 months, or even much faster, so quick decision matters.

namechangeforissue · 01/10/2015 12:03

Hello all and happy to see you here. I missed the creation of the corner and also the controversy owing to being on holiday with the DC. Before I went away people said "you're going for three weeks? that's a long time" and as these were mainly work people who said this, I assume either a) a three week holiday is a sign of being not at all serious about your profession or b) they were jealous. However as it turns out c) although we went a long way so it was a long flight etc. and it is better from that POV to go for longer, 3 weeks is a long time with two preschool DCs.

I originally made this name change for a thread about getting out of academia, pre-DC2. Part of my issue was with my university at the time having desperately wooly promotions criteria and though some colleagues thought it was bananas that I hadn't been promoted, a few senior stick in the muds (and one HoD, the HoD has changed several times and the others disagreed) thought that I didn't have enough of XYZ to be promoted (despite others with no XYZ whatsoever and comparable everything else having already been promoted).

So we now have our longed for DC2, relationship with DH is getting along fine, I'm back at work and HAVE been promoted (confirmed just before maternity leave, great timing!).

I have some nice projects going on (though have been COMPLETELY excluded from something else owing partly to major decisions being made while I was on ML, the problem is that nobody outside academia including DH understands that you don't just say "I'll take my ball home then" when this happens because if that happens you don't get any authorships). My teaching is really not too onerous, I'm part time and DC1 is growing up and getting to be more fun to be with (and I only have to go through potty training once more!).

But this is probably partly post-holiday feeling and partly post ML feeling, I still want to leave. Everything feels so petty - and it's not the "we are a business" admin crowd who I can kind of cope with. It's the "we've always done it this way and I don't care if it's stopping you doing your job we HAVE TO DO IT THIS WAY" overcautious jobsworth nearly-retired academics, and the younger ones who are supposedly go-getting 40yo professors but who bow to the jobsworths at every move.

And it's the "but I have kids too" male academics who never pick up their children from nursery (thank goodness for my neighbour who can be seen loading a screaming toddler into the car and driving to the Uni nursery every morning while his DW goes to work in the opposite direction in parallel with my DH). And the "I'm sure they didn't mean that" colleagues mansplaining comments about "you won't be interested [you gave me 2 days on ML to respond]" and "we consulted everyone [except me]".

OK I am going to HAVE to stop there, sorry about the rant. But I am now seriously stalking jobs.ac.uk AND seriously considering moving to something in a government department (DH does something technical and incomprehensible and I could potentially work in a parallel job).

BuffytheFeminist · 01/10/2015 12:04

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BuffytheFeminist · 01/10/2015 12:05

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SeekEveryEveryKnownHidingPlace · 01/10/2015 12:11

Sounds incredibly frustrating, namechange.

My dept is very atomised when it comes to research. We have discussions once in while about people's ongoing projects, but I seem to have 'missed' the call to be in the next few, so it'll be listening to other people's stuff again, which is nice and good, but I wish anyone would listen to mine! Two members of the team offered to read a draft of the thing just accepted in the JJ - sent it to both and neither ever replied. It's not their fault - we're so bloody snowed under with teaching and admin and ever more draconian instructions from the top down, but it's frustrating not to have an academic support system. I've just decided to be proud that I did it and got it accepted without any help or commentary!

(PJJ is going quite well this morning.)

namechangeforissue · 01/10/2015 12:12

So as to be a bit more collegiate... it is possible to do pre-submission enquiries in my field (a softer more girly STEM area), but generally the editor says "go ahead and submit it and we'll see if it fits".

So not very helpful!

Paper-wise, I'm desperately trying to cut about 5 pages off an article (special issue so have to go for this journal!) but may end up cheating and just sending it in with single-spaced references (and possibly also single-spaced tables, oops). It would be shorter if I moved all the figures from the tables into the text but it would be impossible to read. On the plus side, these data have been waiting years to be written and wouldn't have been done if I hadn't had the invitation to submit waiting on my return from ML.

namechangeforissue · 01/10/2015 12:18

Oh yes and I have a THIRD R&R from the Specialist Journal of Judean Studies which I strongly suspect of having been sent to yet more reviewers (R&R 1 - take out the X stuff! R&R 3 - We need more X!). But the deadline on that is later and I have lectures to prepare first too.

DamnCommandments · 01/10/2015 12:19

namechange I'm here because I'm avoiding writing up my PhD. You're saying what I suspect about my own department. I feel as though my luck has run out - but maybe sexism has simply caught up with me. In my teens and twenties I never felt discriminated against, but now I have kids... But even my younger colleagues seem to suffer somewhat.

I've had (a little) experience with government work. It's frustrating and hide-bound, for sure - but I think it takes equality (and work-life balance) more seriously.

MedSchoolRat · 01/10/2015 12:25

lol, one of my collaborators is great on the waffle. We get stuck at a certain point in a mostly quantitative paper, so then put a big note in the margin "Ms. Waffle, please do your magic!" so she can make our results mean something in the real human world.

ok, so presubm enquiries are not so common. How about this...

PJJ & JPJ and JPP have all rejected your paper. Then you submit it to the JPJPJ with a cover letter that lists all the reviewer comments on (last/prev. submissions) and your replies (what you did to fix the paper already). I thought this was a really weird idea, but I've asked around, not so uncommon in our area.

ps: can you tell I'm proscratinating? Day off work, and so many chores I'm not getting done (slaps own wrist)

namechangeforissue · 01/10/2015 12:28

Damn that's what DH says - so much better on work-life balance. He gets official flexi time too (though he can't look at FB on his work computer so I suppose there are swings and roundabouts!)

SeekEveryEveryKnownHidingPlace · 01/10/2015 12:35

Thanks all!
MedSchool - that doesn't sound too weird to me. Might as well be transparent about the paper's history!

(and I love that we're using Judean Studies now!).

BuffytheFeminist · 01/10/2015 13:11

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