Please or to access all these features

Chat

Join the discussion and chat with other Mumsnetters about everyday life, relationships and parenting.

Is my four-year-old behind with counting and recognising letters?

49 replies

Givemepickles · 05/10/2026 17:05

My 4 year old often misses numbers when counting to 10. He often says '11' instead of '7' and gets confused after 6. He'll often keep counting and just skip some numbers.

He can count objects up to 6.

He has a short one syllable name, like 'Ben', and can't usually put the letters in the right order. He also calls letters numbers. He sometimes recognises his name but usually doesn't. We might watch Alphablocks about the letter 's' and then look for it and make its sound and so on and he doesn't seem to recognise it or remember it. He has lots of other things that make us think he is neurodivergent. However, we are now wondering if he might be a bit delayed with this side of things.

We are noticing it in particular because this all seems to come naturally to our 2 year old who happily counts to 10 without missing numbers and is interested in letters and numbers. My 2 year old can recognise as many numbers as my 4 year old, maybe more.

At first we thought our 2 year old was a child genius (of course!) but now we've started slowly realising actually he may be on the more standard trajectory and it could sadly be that our 4 year old needs some extra help.

Can anyone shed any light? We have delayed 4 year old starting school due to his issues so no input from teachers etc.

OP posts:
PragmaticIsh · 05/10/2026 21:36

I'd be getting his hearing checked and then trying to get an assessment with a speech and language therapist. Either privately or via nursery/gp.

slackademic · 05/10/2026 21:41

As others have mentioned hearing and sight tests are definitely worth investigating. I had no idea my daughter had glue ear until I picked up that she was lip-reading anything I said quietly to my partner when we were all playing card games.

Easily 10+ years ago I did an assessment on 180 children entering a 6 form entry primary school (6 X 30 = 180). They were shown lower and upper case letters of the alphabet in random order and asked to pronounce them - one result I remember was that 6 children knew all of the letters while 6 children knew none and there was a wide spectrum inbetween.

Givemepickles · 05/10/2026 21:44

slackademic · 05/10/2026 21:41

As others have mentioned hearing and sight tests are definitely worth investigating. I had no idea my daughter had glue ear until I picked up that she was lip-reading anything I said quietly to my partner when we were all playing card games.

Easily 10+ years ago I did an assessment on 180 children entering a 6 form entry primary school (6 X 30 = 180). They were shown lower and upper case letters of the alphabet in random order and asked to pronounce them - one result I remember was that 6 children knew all of the letters while 6 children knew none and there was a wide spectrum inbetween.

Edited

Do you mind just explaining a bit more. I would assume that if he has hearing issues it would be obvious? Is that incorrect? We can't see any issues with his hearing.

OP posts:

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

Givemepickles · 05/10/2026 21:46

slackademic · 05/10/2026 21:41

As others have mentioned hearing and sight tests are definitely worth investigating. I had no idea my daughter had glue ear until I picked up that she was lip-reading anything I said quietly to my partner when we were all playing card games.

Easily 10+ years ago I did an assessment on 180 children entering a 6 form entry primary school (6 X 30 = 180). They were shown lower and upper case letters of the alphabet in random order and asked to pronounce them - one result I remember was that 6 children knew all of the letters while 6 children knew none and there was a wide spectrum inbetween.

Edited

Also thanks for your experience. That's reassuring there was such a wide range of abilities. It could be possible that DS1 and DS2 are both within normal range but just at different ends because ds1 is so hyperactive and physical whereas ds2 loves books, numbers, puzzles and so on and is happy to sit still doing those for ages.

OP posts:
ElanaohElana · 05/10/2026 21:49

Givemepickles · 05/10/2026 21:30

Not sure if relevant but he sometimes still gets colours confused too. This week he pointed to carrots and said they were green. Green and orange took him ages to get right. He learned his colours fairly reliably around 3.5 years old. Again, comparing him to ds2 this was very late as ds2 knows colours now at 2.3 years old, even ones like grey.

Just to flag, my child got colours muddled up but turns out he is quite severely colour blind. It hadn’t even occcured to me as a possibility for some reason!

DarkLion · 05/10/2026 21:53

Regarding the posters mentioning hearing it’s a possibility if he’s not been hearing the things right correctly. Like your example the ending of seven does sound similar to eleven and the same with your recollection of his word pronunciation. Colour blindness could also be a real possibility with his recognition of colours. It does sound like he needs some support and when seeking this it will probably be asked about hearing and eye check ups as if those are fine then you’ve got those ruled out

Givemepickles · 05/10/2026 22:01

DarkLion · 05/10/2026 21:53

Regarding the posters mentioning hearing it’s a possibility if he’s not been hearing the things right correctly. Like your example the ending of seven does sound similar to eleven and the same with your recollection of his word pronunciation. Colour blindness could also be a real possibility with his recognition of colours. It does sound like he needs some support and when seeking this it will probably be asked about hearing and eye check ups as if those are fine then you’ve got those ruled out

We did look into colour blindness when he was 3 and discovered it's only possible if the father is also colour blind, or at least the grandfather, sorry I can't remember exactly but it would be genetically impossible as we have no colour blindness. We had him do an online test where he says what animals he can see in the different coloured dots and he aced it so we dropped the worry. I can only assume he just gets confused.

I will ask the gp about hearing tests though.

OP posts:
Givemepickles · 05/10/2026 22:02

ElanaohElana · 05/10/2026 21:49

Just to flag, my child got colours muddled up but turns out he is quite severely colour blind. It hadn’t even occcured to me as a possibility for some reason!

Do you have colour blindness in the family?

OP posts:
Givemepickles · 05/10/2026 22:06

Givemepickles · 05/10/2026 22:01

We did look into colour blindness when he was 3 and discovered it's only possible if the father is also colour blind, or at least the grandfather, sorry I can't remember exactly but it would be genetically impossible as we have no colour blindness. We had him do an online test where he says what animals he can see in the different coloured dots and he aced it so we dropped the worry. I can only assume he just gets confused.

I will ask the gp about hearing tests though.

Also, I would love support with him and have asked so many places but it seems there is none. He is on the ASD pathway but won't be seen for at least a year. They turned down my request for OT help which i believe he would benefit from as he's sensory seeking. I'm told he's too young for adhd assessment which is what we think he has. I've been to GP, health visitor has come over, I meet with nursery regularly. Nursery do help with the SEND stuff they do with him which seems to be having a good effect. Otherwise I've been left entirely to figure everything out by myself. I've made huge changes to my parenting, to my life and work and to his schedule and our lives basically revolve around supporting him. I want support but I have no idea where to get it. No one I speak to is giving it to me personally.

OP posts:
DancingonmyOwn88 · 05/10/2026 22:12

You may well not as they’ve been cut to fuck but do you have a children’s centre near you?

Octavia64 · 05/10/2026 22:18

not sure about colour blindness but there are all sorts of things that can be wrong with colour vision that are not full colour blindness.

my ExH had trichromatic anomaly for example and both parents had full colour vision.

you should take him for a proper eye test.

equally yes it is very very common for children at this age to have hearing problems - glue ear is a common one - so that they can’t quite hear sounds exactly accurately. Many children with this have never had really clear hearing (I had it as a kid) and so don’t know how the world is supposed to sound.

it’s problematic if you are teaching phonics because kids need to know what words sound like and if they eg can’t hear the first letter of a word (the initial) consistently they struggle with phonics and with blending.

for this reason in the uk system if there are concerns about possible Sen it is standard to get a vision check and hearing test done first because a large, large number of kids who struggle actually need either glasses or grommets to fix a glue ear.

Glystl · 05/10/2026 22:25

I think colour blindness is usually inherited from your mother having the gene, rather than father. It's very rare in women but we carry it. My son has it because it was passed on from my mum's dad through my mum to me but my brother (who is colour blind) didn't pass it on to his kids. It doesn't really impact my son, obviously it can be unhelpful with colouring and I think it made doing puzzles harder, but that's it really. I think loads of people are totally unaware they have it though, as a teenager friend only found out when he failed the screening for the RAF at 18, so maybe some is hiding in your family too!

Glystl · 05/10/2026 22:29

O and my DD had glue ear, never severe enough to need intervention but she was a bit slower to speak than peers. We requested a check through health visitor which picked it up. Services cut so much now, but it was quite a fast response then (8 years ago) and then regular check ups where they just played games to check her hearing

slackademic · 05/10/2026 23:30

Givemepickles · 05/10/2026 21:44

Do you mind just explaining a bit more. I would assume that if he has hearing issues it would be obvious? Is that incorrect? We can't see any issues with his hearing.

I'm sure plenty of parents do spot something not quite right with their child's hearing but we didn't! I know it seems like most kids are ill most of the time in the first few years of their life as their immune systems are developing and my daughter did have a lot of colds - so many in fact that I paid to go on a course to learn how to do head and face massage on her to (apparently) help keep her sinuses (holes in her skull and face) clear (I now suspect it has no basis). After she explained she could tell what we were saying when we spoke by watching our mouths move (we were gobsmacked by this BTW) we had the GP look in her ears. As I remember, as explained to me, her eardrum was sucked inwards and unable to vibrate. She had grommets fitted. I remember walking back from the hospital (which was just up the road from my house) after the operation, with her on my shoulders when she suddenly span round and nearly fell off - it was the sound of leaves blowing around that had startled her and made her twist round so the grommets made an instant and dramatic difference. I don't think they were in for long, they fell out after a few weeks/couple of months I think.

99bottlesofkombucha · 05/10/2026 23:33

Givemepickles · 05/10/2026 22:06

Also, I would love support with him and have asked so many places but it seems there is none. He is on the ASD pathway but won't be seen for at least a year. They turned down my request for OT help which i believe he would benefit from as he's sensory seeking. I'm told he's too young for adhd assessment which is what we think he has. I've been to GP, health visitor has come over, I meet with nursery regularly. Nursery do help with the SEND stuff they do with him which seems to be having a good effect. Otherwise I've been left entirely to figure everything out by myself. I've made huge changes to my parenting, to my life and work and to his schedule and our lives basically revolve around supporting him. I want support but I have no idea where to get it. No one I speak to is giving it to me personally.

We had to turn up the first adhd assessment with reports from hearing and vision tests. They rule these things out first as the cause.

Givemepickles · 06/10/2026 08:48

slackademic · 05/10/2026 23:30

I'm sure plenty of parents do spot something not quite right with their child's hearing but we didn't! I know it seems like most kids are ill most of the time in the first few years of their life as their immune systems are developing and my daughter did have a lot of colds - so many in fact that I paid to go on a course to learn how to do head and face massage on her to (apparently) help keep her sinuses (holes in her skull and face) clear (I now suspect it has no basis). After she explained she could tell what we were saying when we spoke by watching our mouths move (we were gobsmacked by this BTW) we had the GP look in her ears. As I remember, as explained to me, her eardrum was sucked inwards and unable to vibrate. She had grommets fitted. I remember walking back from the hospital (which was just up the road from my house) after the operation, with her on my shoulders when she suddenly span round and nearly fell off - it was the sound of leaves blowing around that had startled her and made her twist round so the grommets made an instant and dramatic difference. I don't think they were in for long, they fell out after a few weeks/couple of months I think.

Edited

That mist have been quite an experience for you all and especially your dd to hear like that again. I don't think it's what is going on with my son, he is distracted by absolutely everything so is definitely hearing a variety of noises. We can also easily chat in the car with him behind me so he's not lip reading. But I'll go to gp to have it ruled out. Appreciate the advice.

OP posts:
PragmaticIsh · 06/10/2026 14:15

Some children with adhd/asd/other neurodiversity can have an element of processing disorder. So they may not hear or register the start of a word or a sentence properly. When DS was little (adhd) I used to say his name or touch him to get his focus before talking to him. It worked for his cousin with a processing disorder as well. Hence my suggestion that seeing a speech and language therapist may be very useful for his processing of language as well as his speech.

AbsintheMakesTheHeartGrowFonder · 06/10/2026 15:00

We have delayed 4 year old starting school due to his issues so no input from teachers etc.

What do you mean by 'his issues'? I'm assuming you mean behaviourial type issues? Because it would be odd to delay him starting school just because he can't already do the sorts of things school is supposed to teach him. You wouldn't say 'I won't send my kid to swimming lessons because he can't swim'.

BertieBotts · 06/10/2026 15:04

DS2 also mixed up colours much longer than I expected him to, but immediately passed all the colour blindness screenings. This passed and he did sort out colours later on although he doesn't always put the boundaries (e.g. between blue and purple) in the same place most other people would, or he'll get frustrated if there are two different shades of pink for example because he'll feel like they can't BOTH be pink crayons as they are different colours. But then he is happy enough if you give them different names. Black and brown is the other one he will reverse the words for. I actually wondered if this is similar to something which happens to me - I have very good colour vision, but I will frequently for whatever reason mix up the words for yellow and white. So I know what I mean and what I see and what I intend to say but I will say the opposite word, and I don't always realise I have done it. I have always done this since very young and I still do it now.

DS3 seemed to struggle to see 3D images and some of the colour blindness screenings had query whether he could make them out, but by the next year's check up, he was fine and no further issues. He has had a vision check with a camera thing and they reckon he will need glasses for distance vision when he is older, but not yet.

A hearing test is v easy to do (as long as DC can follow the instructions) and so always worth doing, as it's an easy thing to rule out. For DS2 he passed all hearing tests and in fact he has extremely sensitive hearing, and an incredible memory for very detailed differences in sound and I would say it's almost as close to vision for him in importance of how he processes the world. If he goes to a new place, some of the things he remembers and tells us about later on are about what the various sounds he heard were. I sometimes think his difficulties in processing "basic" or everyday things are caused by the fact that he seems to be constantly processing an enormous, overwhelming amount of sensory and cognitive input and his brain doesn't really filter this for relevance at all. I have ADHD myself, and I understand that this is common in ADHD but for him it is on another level. The only thing I've really seen which comes close to what I imagine it's like for him is that Chris Packham documentary on autism, where he described being in a forest and then later in a supermarket (though DS2 is OK in supermarkets, and doesn't as a rule find them overwhelming).

It was suggested at some point by two separate professionals that he may have auditory processing disorder. At the time that this was suggested, he was having all manner of testing for the ADHD/ASD/general school readiness and so we opted not to put him through more at that time, and whether he does have APD or not, it doesn't seem to be causing major issues at the moment.

Givemepickles · 06/10/2026 17:10

BertieBotts · 06/10/2026 15:04

DS2 also mixed up colours much longer than I expected him to, but immediately passed all the colour blindness screenings. This passed and he did sort out colours later on although he doesn't always put the boundaries (e.g. between blue and purple) in the same place most other people would, or he'll get frustrated if there are two different shades of pink for example because he'll feel like they can't BOTH be pink crayons as they are different colours. But then he is happy enough if you give them different names. Black and brown is the other one he will reverse the words for. I actually wondered if this is similar to something which happens to me - I have very good colour vision, but I will frequently for whatever reason mix up the words for yellow and white. So I know what I mean and what I see and what I intend to say but I will say the opposite word, and I don't always realise I have done it. I have always done this since very young and I still do it now.

DS3 seemed to struggle to see 3D images and some of the colour blindness screenings had query whether he could make them out, but by the next year's check up, he was fine and no further issues. He has had a vision check with a camera thing and they reckon he will need glasses for distance vision when he is older, but not yet.

A hearing test is v easy to do (as long as DC can follow the instructions) and so always worth doing, as it's an easy thing to rule out. For DS2 he passed all hearing tests and in fact he has extremely sensitive hearing, and an incredible memory for very detailed differences in sound and I would say it's almost as close to vision for him in importance of how he processes the world. If he goes to a new place, some of the things he remembers and tells us about later on are about what the various sounds he heard were. I sometimes think his difficulties in processing "basic" or everyday things are caused by the fact that he seems to be constantly processing an enormous, overwhelming amount of sensory and cognitive input and his brain doesn't really filter this for relevance at all. I have ADHD myself, and I understand that this is common in ADHD but for him it is on another level. The only thing I've really seen which comes close to what I imagine it's like for him is that Chris Packham documentary on autism, where he described being in a forest and then later in a supermarket (though DS2 is OK in supermarkets, and doesn't as a rule find them overwhelming).

It was suggested at some point by two separate professionals that he may have auditory processing disorder. At the time that this was suggested, he was having all manner of testing for the ADHD/ASD/general school readiness and so we opted not to put him through more at that time, and whether he does have APD or not, it doesn't seem to be causing major issues at the moment.

Was your DS who mixed up colours diagnosed with adhd in the end? How did he get on in primary school? I'm looking at schools now and worrying what I need to look for to make things easier for him. So I focus on small class sizes, learning through play or a larger school with strong senco?

OP posts:
Ilmiocompleanno · 06/10/2026 17:52

Just to add another vote to the posters saying you should absolutely insist on a hearing test for your son. It really leapt out at me when you mentioned your son missing the initial consonant sounds from words. That's what my daughter did at that age and it was due to a hearing impairment (easily treated with grommets in her case). When a child has some hearing, it's not always easy to spot that their hearing is impaired.

Givemepickles · 06/10/2026 21:38

Ilmiocompleanno · 06/10/2026 17:52

Just to add another vote to the posters saying you should absolutely insist on a hearing test for your son. It really leapt out at me when you mentioned your son missing the initial consonant sounds from words. That's what my daughter did at that age and it was due to a hearing impairment (easily treated with grommets in her case). When a child has some hearing, it's not always easy to spot that their hearing is impaired.

Thank you. I still don't think that's the issue but I will absolutely get him checked and appreciate the advice. I just think it's more to do with his distractability but if it's glue ear that would be much easier to solve. Could he have had that for a long time like 2 years?

OP posts:
BertieBotts · 06/10/2026 23:56

Givemepickles · 06/10/2026 17:10

Was your DS who mixed up colours diagnosed with adhd in the end? How did he get on in primary school? I'm looking at schools now and worrying what I need to look for to make things easier for him. So I focus on small class sizes, learning through play or a larger school with strong senco?

Yes, I wrote a longer post about him above. We are abroad so he has only just started his second year of school. Last year was a complete disaster until he started ADHD medication, then it was OK.

To be honest it is difficult to say what kind of school would be best. The thing is that DS2 has challenging behaviour as well, which we understand now was basically him getting overwhelmed, but we didn't really understand the full picture initially. This started probably around age 3-4. Before school, he went through three different Kindergartens which is most like nursery in the UK system, but goes until they are 6 or 7, so it does include an aspect of early years education which is mostly learning through play. Kindergarten was also tricky for him until we found this last one which was just brilliant because the director is fab and will move things around until the right mix is found. She shifted some stuff for us so that DS could join the one group with a male staff member because it just so happened that he'd had previously better experiences with male Kindergarten staff, and coincidentally it turned out to be a fantastic fit because this bloke was patient, kind, soft-spoken and coincidentally had a few overlapping interests with DH so when DS rabbited on about things his dad likes, the staff member recognised them and was able to engage on that level.

Part of what didn't work initially at school was that he does not come across well to new adults particularly when he is part of a group. It was often fine when he was little and not really expected to follow instructions, but maybe starting at 3-4 and certainly once he turned about 5, people would see his behaviour before they would see him and that's where the pattern became much clearer, because he does not generalise social rules or automatically recognise adult authority, and so he would either try to explore something inappropriately or just want to deviate from whatever the adult-led activity was supposed to be. So they would (understandably) try to immediately set a boundary and stop the behaviour, and if they did this gently he would ignore it, but if they escalated to even slightly stern, this would basically cause him to mentally categorise that adult as a scary person who cannot be trusted, and when he does not trust somebody then he would barely engage with them at all, which meant he was not following instructions or really listening. We did not initially recognise this because if a trusted adult tells him a rule, he will want to follow that rule to the letter and so we didn't really have issues with difficult behaviour at home (at least not then) because he trusted us and listened to us. In addition to this he has some stims (which come out when he is overwhelmed) such as loud vocalisation which can be annoying and disruptive, and he can also be prone to silly/attention-seeking/over-emotional type behaviour when overwhelmed as well, and he really can't seem to stop himself from doing this, or hold any kind of serious conversation about it afterwards either. (this all goes away with medication, and comes back literally as soon as it wears off).

The only adults who were able to actually get anything out of him were people who had the time and curiosity to meet him on his level, who were able to let him take the lead and follow him into his world, and then once that relationship was built, they could successfully lead him into other places.

Looking back at that, I can appreciate that actually this just isn't practical for schools. He did well on a 1:1 basis, and schools don't have the staff to gently and individually welcome every single child in this way, especially when there are 30 of them starting at a time. I think maybe I was naive because my eldest child being much older did receive a 1:1 (or, actually 2:1) home visit from his nursery/reception teacher before he started at nursery and I don't think schools generally do this any more. I do think if DS2 had been able to have just 15 minutes to meet with the teacher and see the classroom before he was thrown into the whole class situation with 25 other people in the room he would have done much better but it was not an option, unfortunately. And it might not have been enough - even his favourite ever Kindergarten teacher once he stepped back and was less involved directly, DS would have good days and bad days and still basically would not engage with any of the other teachers (but particularly the ones who thought he was just naughty). So I suppose if I was looking at schools, I'd ask whether there is any kind of scope for a slower or gentler introduction. With small class sizes, at least for us, the issue is that unless the class was like 6 pupils, it wouldn't have been small enough to make a difference. We were looking at this at one point and I don't think even SEN schools are that small here. Learning through play is always a positive IMO over academics for younger children, but the reason he wasn't totally drowning at Kindergarten was less because it was play based and more because he had more freedom/autonomy to choose his own activity most of the time. Schools incorporating autonomy can be amazing, but the good ones seem to be really really rare. Beware of schools which have this as a buzzword but do not actually have staff who are trained and experienced in supporting it adequately, as it can end up like Lord of the Flies. Large school with good SENCo might be good, but might also be a magnet for all the SEN pupils in the area which might mean you're fighting for scant resources or the school is overwhelmed by the needs and the teachers can't balance it all.

There's no easy answer. I would visit the schools, see if they will let him come for a visit, and see what your gut says. It's usually a good indicator. Don't stress about finding the perfect school, because chances are that a lot of it will be down to luck and you just can't control the outcome all that much and actually, you will drive yourself mad trying (seriously. This is a genuine risk and sometimes you have to step back and let the system fail.) Put your efforts into observing his patterns so you can basically be his "translator". That is the best advice a family member who is also a SEN mum (and was a SEN TA for a while) gave me.

Ilmiocompleanno · 08/10/2026 08:34

Givemepickles · 06/10/2026 21:38

Thank you. I still don't think that's the issue but I will absolutely get him checked and appreciate the advice. I just think it's more to do with his distractability but if it's glue ear that would be much easier to solve. Could he have had that for a long time like 2 years?

My daughter had glue ear for quite a long period, so I would think it probably can be present for 2 years. To be honest I doubt a hearing impairment is the sole cause of the issues you've described, but it could easily be a contributory factor, so it makes sense to get his hearing checked.

New posts on this thread. Refresh page