Factory farmed pigs - how do they move ?.

[EmailsaysOOO]

Can anyone understand how this many pigs are all in such small crates? I mean presumably they don't spend their whole lives standing up, do they? But there are so many- more aisles on each side of what's in view here . I can't see how they can be moved out these cages because it would be mad, trying to move them out from such a massive warehouse to another place. Does anyone understand this scene please?

A lot of people eat pork. Thus a lot of pigs are required.

Look at animal.rising on instagram. Michelle just spent 3 weeks outside Westminster living in a farrowing crate in protest about how pigs are treated in the UK.

it is barbaric and I'm also vegetarian for this reason. I'm not against meat that's been farmed properly and had a good life but it's hard to come by now.

I'm not sure that I feel the same way as you. This is a picture of factory farming somewhere. It doesn't matter too much if it's in Yorkshire, Berkshire or Xiangdong.

Wherever it's going on, it's going on. I'm not accusing anyone in particular of horrible actions, I'm just dismayed that in some places - and I admit I do not know where these are - still in some places pigs clearly are held captive. They have so little room to move that you no rational person would say they have a decent life.

Eating animals is immoral

They are still legal in this country according to the Compassion for World Farming meeting I was in recently. Over 60% of sows kept in them while they whelp. They have announced a gradual phase out yes, but that doesn't mean that pigs are not kept in similar set-ups currently, to what the OP's photo shows. Supposedly to stop the Mother of the piglets accidentally crushing them (which more or less never happens if the sow is left to her own devices in a suitable, ethical enclosure). Let's not forget that 60% is also the figure for pork eaten in this country that does not COME from this country.

Put simply, we're awful to these intelligent, emotionally sound animals. We're still savages IMO. We just think we're on a par with deities because we've discovered new ways to enact it, and because we believe we've removed ourself from nature with technology.

We have the same nervous system as pigs. We all sleep,eat, spread disease and shit the same as any other animal. But we're also massive abusers of those without voice.

Tastebuds are sooooo important though.

... And,(aimed at no poster in particular)
you can talk to my 13 inch biceps about the protein myth.

I disagree. I was iron deficient in my teens when I ate meat. Since stopping eating it around ten years ago, no issues whatsoever. Plus my gut is now far healthier.

Yes.
26 years vegan 32 years vegetarian never been deficient in anything. AND I had prolonged amenorrhea following a botched abortion in my twenties. Still no deficiency.

To repeat (again): the picture is not farrowing crates.

I have worked on an extensive farm where sows farrowed in 'suitable, ethical enclosures' (not whelp 🙄) instead of crates. One of my daily tasks was to go in and retrieve dead piglets after sows lay on them so don't fall for the lie that they don't do it. Which is not saying they should noy be phased out.

I fully accept that the picture shows very poor welfare conditions. Conditions that are not legal in the UK. If you want to campaign for improvements to animal welfare in China and the US, go for it. But stop lying to people that this is still happening in the UK.

I didn't say it was.

A quick google will expose intensive farming in the UK. It is not pleasant. I will not link because I am not someone who likes to cause discomfort for people albeit that's the only thing that's changed people's diets much of the time.

60% of meat eaten here is not from the UK regardless of the argument about conditions here, chances are if someone eats animal's bodies, they've paid for them from a cruel resource.

I already campaign a lot.

It’s barbaric. Same for pretty much all other farmed animals. Cows are artificially inseminated and their calves are taken from them within days - incredibly distressing for both baby and mother, who calls out for days. Male chicks are considered worthless as they can’t lay eggs so are macerated on a high speed grinder within hours of their birth. I don’t understand how we as adults can take children to farms and tell our kids to look at how cute the animals are, and then feed them animals? Let’s face it, most people in UK can only afford cheap, processed meat, therefore the welfare standards for the animals will be incredibly low.

I’m quietly vegan in my life - I go about not making any judgment on people’s choices but personally I cannot eat meat/dairy as I know the reality behind how it was made is not pleasant. Yeah, I know me being vegan isn’t going to make any difference - and children are brought up to eat animals/shielded from true reality of it so I can’t see anything ever changing in society - but at least I know I’m not contributing to animal suffering. Oh and I’m strong and fit, can life heavy weights, no issues with protein deficiency with me.

I closed all my windows and doors for a few days recently despite my love of fresh air and the pleasant, mild weather.

Hearing cows crying and screaming as their calves are taken is NOT something I can cope with, it makes me depressed as I am so powerless to do something about it.

I first saw a video of same some years ago. The calf was snatched minutes after birth (yes yes I am aware that in this country, this is rare, for all the 'gotcha!' people however I caveat that with it is usually within 72 hours and often within 24 and don't get me started on the cruelty that is veal) and the poor cow, frantically sniffing the placenta for a few seconds before realising s/he truly had gone and becoming hysterical. Of course no sympathy for her, just shoved along the line to be cruelly pumped for her milk, all while wondering how and where her baby had gone.

The very least I can do is not put my name to it and not fund it. Animals have emotions, nervous systems and they deserve better, and until humans respect that, we're still savages.

ETA, plus, supping milk past the age of being weaned and from another species, is frankly, feckin' weird.

Hi sorry if this comes across as nit - picking. When you say 60% of the meat we eat comes from outside the UK, can I ask how you found that statistic? I could well believe it because I can't see us being self-sufficient in meat..But can you give any more background please? What meats do we import most of ?

( No idea why, but I hope we don't import vast amounts of beef and pork, . the bigger the animal, the sadder it seems, if you want to believe our farming/ welfare standards are better than those abroad).

It's not a problem and you're not 'nit picking' to want a more accurate analysis. To be academic, pigs are a strict 60%. We lack the means of production here for pigs as a rule. Cows, a lot is domestic (this can all be found on Gov.UK if you don't want to trawl through academic papers) and we also export a lot of cows' meat bred here, to other countries. Some bovine meat is from Ireland too, a smaller percentage from farther (I believe Aus is the biggest contender of late but a google will tell you more about this).

Hens are mainly domestic too however the british diet is not as diverse as some countries hence we export a lot of their flesh and import more of it(put simply we are fussy about which parts of hens we eat).

We send our lamb's meat and sheep's meat to other countries more than we eat it ourselves too.

So, if you are more about the import of pigs and cows, cows you have less to worry about than pigs. A lot more research has gone into the intelligence of pigs, to that of cows, same with the exposure of said research. I do not lack the intelligence to assume that humans can even comprehend the intelligence of animals with differences to our own species (I compare this to our lack of understanding, quite recently in the great scheme of things, to be able to comprehend that being Caucasian does not equal intellectual superiority). I also do not buy that intelligence=more deserving of empathy and care, if we do believe this, should we not still be treating those with learning disabilities with contempt?

'Intelligence' is also contested in terms of what it actually means. We lack the vocabulary for exploration of other animals' experience of life.

It is worth thinking about, whether our brains, that are geared for being more empathic toward those who are similar to us, care more about cows and pigs (as you reference in your post) than hens because cows and pigs are not SO dissimilar, when compared to a hen. Humans, cows and pigs are all mammalian. They have similar skin, they live on the ground, they don't have wings, even their faces have similar eyes and nostrils etc etc.

Hens have feathers, are capable of flight (to an extent) have beaks. They're different to use more so. Is this why we value them less albeit not very much less? Rather than size.

Thanks for the extra details, muddleofpuddle. I think I'd heard that about lamb and sheep. Interesting about chickens and our taste being different to other countries. I always thought cows would have a ok- ISH farming treatment although I know I'm pretty ignorant and probably naive. So for pigs we are often going to be eating pork raised, or farmed from outside the UK. So who knows what conditions are deemed ok in other places. Goodness knows

About what animals we have most sympathy, or empathy for, personally I think a lot rests on the size of their eyes. That's why I'd hate to see a

cow being mistreated. Whereas fish, or hens, I might be more callous

It is a funny thing. I love looking into huge dogs' eyes.
I am also more naturally empathic towards larger animals. Size matters to humans!😆 I'm not sure why but there has been some research into it.

Despite this I'd never harm any animal of any size on purpose*, nor pay for someone else to harm one. I think that's the bare minimum my hence ass can do. I'm a walking advertisement for the fact it is unnecessary.

• I draw the line at parasites. If my dog had fleas for example.