Factory farmed pigs - how do they move ?.

[EmailsaysOOO]

Can anyone understand how this many pigs are all in such small crates? I mean presumably they don't spend their whole lives standing up, do they? But there are so many- more aisles on each side of what's in view here . I can't see how they can be moved out these cages because it would be mad, trying to move them out from such a massive warehouse to another place. Does anyone understand this scene please?

I can see that some might call it misleading to put this picture up if it wasn't taken in the UK. I have no idea .I'm not interested too much where it was taken..I was trying to understand what it shows . But wherever it happens it's a miserable sight in my view..although I understand if some.might say, well at least we don't do this in the UK. I understand that might feel better to think it only happens elsewhere.

Better to encourage those farmers who do treat their animals well by buying produce from them, which will affect far more animals than an amateur 'rescuing" a few and probably not knowing how to keep them healthy.

"this story isn't true but what it tells us is...."

I very very rarely eat meat so I don't have an ulterior motive to defend the meat industry but I really don't think this sort of misleading advertising helps the humane societies case. In fact I don't even know what "the case" is... Anti-factory farming, anti-meat industry in general? It just makes them look untrustworthy and sheds doubt on everything they are saying.
I also am a bit confused because you acknowledge in one line "I can see that some might call it misleading to put this picture up if it wasn't taken in the UK" but then double down in a way that feels a bit passive aggressive "it might feel better to think it only happens elsewhere". Which makes it seem like the people explaining it wasn't taken in the UK are the ones being untruthful or practicing cognitive dissonance. If the photograph was taken in China then it isn't about feeling better- I don't know what PETA or the Humane society want to do. And it is straight up misleading to state "this is factory farming" no feeling about it.

There are real animal rights issues in farming in the UK. As I said before the amount of enrichment pigs especially need to live a "good" life is very high because they are highly intelligent social animals. But straight up easy to disprove lies about what factory farming looks like are patronising and counter productive.

If all consumers only bought organic pork, these places will cease to exist.

But they don’t. They want cheap. 🤷‍♀️

Why does it matter if it's in the UK or not? You're not going to suddenly be vegetarian when you go abroad, are you? Animals are in worse conditions than this in the UK. Chickens especially. Of course it can't be justified. It's healthier and more ethical on numerous grounds to not eat animals, but most people don't have the brain cells to work that out.

I take any advertising by these animal rights organizations with a pinch of salt. They are currently running adverts on the tube in London claiming to have reached 100 million people with their ad campaign on the tube. That's more than the whole population of the UK. What else are they wrong about.

You keep asking this question - by inseminated you do realise it's not by a male pig don't you ?
It will be via artificial means .

Well it's relevant if it's in the UK if it's a campaign asking for engagement to put in place laws to ban unethical farming practices. Many people (like me) are comfortable to eat meat but want for the animals to be looked after humanely and slaughtered in as humane a way as possible (I am sure you don't agree and that's OK). I would be supportive of any laws to prevent pigs being kept in conditions like those shown in the picture for any amount of time.

The challenge is, we do have those laws in place, and have done for many years. So I'm not sure what the point of the campaign is other than to encourage vegetarianism. It's just stupid advertising though - they'd have more success trying to get people to reduce meat consumption.

This. In a natural environment, sows sing to their babies. They're excellent mothers. The way we treat them is barbaric. They're arguably more intelligent than a lot of dog breeds (not that humans even have the language yet to fully understand forms of intelligence far removed from our own).

I haven't eaten any part of any animal since 1993. My parents refused to feed me as a result. I lived on jam and bread until I learned to cook.

This is NOT in my name and I abhor anyone who thinks It's acceptable. Humans are utter cunts.

For what It's worth, I am 44 and a bodybuilder. I can bench press over my own bodyweight. No health issues whatsoever.
There's no need for this and if it is banned within my lifetime it will be the happiest day of my life regardless of anything else that happens for me.

We absolutely do do it in the UK. A quick google can tell you that. Not just pigs either. Plus, a lot of animals eaten in the UK are not bred in the UK.

I live in rural Suffolk and there are loads of pig farms near us. All the pigs live outside and have their own Sties.

I do eat meat, but only buy from an organic butcher.

Umm it’s very relevant if this photo doesn’t apply to any pork you’d buy in the uk.

We absolutely do not keep animals in the manner shown in the UK. It is illegal and has been for decades.

The UK primarily imports pork from other European countries, not from China and barely any from US. Both those countries are looking to and learning from our welfare standards.

The dairy and egg industries aren't good either.
Wish there was more a lot info out there on mainstream TV and taught in secondary schools for people to see and understand the process of using animals for food so that it isn't so easy to not think about it and look the other way.

I don’t eat meat and only eat organic eggs, half of the ‘free range’ meat isn’t free range as they coop so many animals together particularly chickens and they grow them so big they can’t move so lots haven’t even seen daylight even though they are called ‘free range’ Daylesford organic chicken in my opinion is the only true ‘free range’ line as they limit the number of animals per square metre.

Oh that;s good to know. Thanks Anna

Yes I'm aware that they're insemininated artificially. I was asking the question because it didn't seem to my eyes as if they could sit down and the idea of pigs having to spend their whole life on their legs seemed wrong. So initially I wrongly jumped to the conclusion they were all in these crates for the time it would take to get them inseminated ( by machine or humans or however that happens).

I'm not a campaigner. I don't know where the picture was taken. I'm not saying it is or isn't in the UK. It's happeneing somewhere and I was hoping to understand what the picture shows.

I think I get it now. These pigs- wherever they are- they are able to lie down, but they can't turn around.

Your best bet to avoid this horror show is to buy online from Eversfield Organic Butchers based on Dartmoor. That's the best value delivered-to-door organic meat I've found.
Grass-fed, UK, organic and free range - the venison is wild and probably the most ethical meat you could consume.

Other than that, buy from a local farm shop - might be an hour away but if you stock up and put it in your freezer it's well worth the effort.

A free range animal and a caged one stand on the same kill line though.

It is NOT healthier for omnivores to not eat meat. Humans have evolved over thousands of years to be omnivores. If we don't eat meat, we can become deficient in iron, especially, which supplements aren't always successful in increasing, because they are not absorbed well

Free range chickens is more complicated because if you have a load of chickens in a barn with an open door then most of the chickens will stay inside the barn where it is covered and they feel safe. Especially if the outside area has no tree cover. There is a "good" way to raise chickens so they have happy lives but even the decent companies won't show the "truth" of their farms on their promotional material because it's hard to farm chickens to any sort of scale in a way that's also visually appealing. Chickens are messy destructive curious birds who like to flock together and who also need to be carefully monitored to stop them from pecking weaker chickens even in decent environments. I don't eat chicken but I do eat eggs. Really they want access to outdoor space with tree cover and inside areas and plenty of foraging space but also (because chickens will strip places bare) additional feed or they will starve quickly.

Pigs are more complicated because they are more intelligent. That doesn't mean their lives are worth more but it does mean that it takes a lot more to raise them ethically in a way they don't suffer. They do not use fattening crates of gestational crates in the UK. Farrowing crates (where the pig has space to lie down and stand up but not always turn) are still used but considered cruel because it messes with the pigs natural behaviour and natural desire to interact with her young. Outside of having piglets pigs also deserve to socialise with other pigs and forage naturally. But that's nothing to do with the picture shown in the poster which has been illegal in the UK since 1998.

It's the same tactic used by Farage/Restore etc. Show something emotive but untrue and then when called out on it claim the moral high ground because anyone criticising the veracity can be accused of "denying there is a problem". I hate it.

The best way to avoid it is to not eat animals and animal products.

Im not about to go to China and eat their pork meat am I? Lots of people eat high welfare meat when they can and avoid meat when they can't guarantee the welfare. Meat isn't like heroin where you get hooked on it in England and then can't help eating it when traveling the US/Asia. So absolutely it matters where the picture is taken. Especially when the claim is that this is apparently what factory farms look like. When at least in the EU/UK it demonstrably isn't.

We do have factory farms. A couple have been closed down recently. And we do use so called 'farrowing crates'.

As already stated upthread, farrowing crates are already planned to be phased out. This was announced last December.

We do not keep pigs in fattening crates. If you know of any farm where it is ongoing, please go ahead and report them, they are breaking the law and have been since 1999. Pigs in the UK have to be reared in groups.

I have also already stated upthread that welfare improvements can still be made to how we intensively farm, such as increasing pen size and further environmental enrichment. Margins are tight, and until/unless consumers are willing to pay more for higher welfare, there will always be producers willing to cut corners.