Is it normal for an architect to design this much beyond budget? At this stage?

[Meforthree]

Has anyone used an architect for a full renovation project that can give us some advice? We have been in discussion with ours since before buying our property in South London in May. We were clear about budget for the renovation but when she presented us with her predicted costs they were literally nearly four times what we’d said.

We had a big conversation about how this could have happened, and she didn’t really explain that but said she did think we could do the works for just a bit over our original budget so we agreed to that and tried to move forward. But now six weeks later we are trying to really firm up how and what things may cost (she got a projected cost from a basement company that would eat up well over half our budget! For what it’s worth, other basement companies have told me it would be less) and she is now making noises that strongly suggest she is actually still designing speculatively and that we will reduce the scope of the project as and when if we need to. I just asked her outright in an email how it was she thought we could afford the rest of the works if the basement did indeed cost that and she still hasn’t properly answered. I’m so mad, she’s supposed to be designing (broadly speaking) to our budget! AND we’ve already had a serious conversation about this sort of thing..

Am I missing something? Is this normal?
And how easy would it be to switch architects at this point? We’ve already got a pre-app in and we were hoping to get everything moving enough to hit the ground with builders by end of January….

We did a full house renovation some years ago and it went really well.

Everything was fully priced.
Everything was fully on paper.
Our team were highly recommended and fully responsive.

The job hasn't begun and she isn't responding.
This is the best she is going to be.
This is where a tight contract is critical.

I would be asking for answers and pinning her to why she isn't answering and doesn't appear to adhering to the budget.

There are good architects out there but she doesn't sound like one.

I wouldn't allow anyone hang a shelf in my home without being highly recommended.

This has served me very well.
Start a paper trail now to prove the problems you are having with communication and start looking for someone else.

Clearly this is an enormous job of many hundreds of thousands.

Her incompetence could easily add a fortune to it.

Get ahead of this by also having every decision on fittings for the house picked out, lights, kitchen, bathroom, floors, handles, switches, colours, landscaping, the lot.
Having these comprehensively priced up, will give you a sense of the costs involved.

Those decisions come hard and fast, it really helps to know what you want.

Going over budget is normal. Going 4x over is not and is basically just ignoring the brief. This would really bother me and I would be looking to change architect.

We did a full renovation of a Tudor farmhouse, had a poor architect but stuck with him because it seemed too late to change. Have always regretted it and think we'd have had a better outcome for less money if we had switched as soon as we realised. It's not fun to have to change but this is a long term project and the wasted time/money will be as nothing to the money and time you'll waste down the line by using an architect who is not on the same page.

This.
DH has a construction business and he says about 90% of the time it's over designed, over budget and not realistic!

My point isn't that we need to know numbers, my point is questioning whether your expectations are out of sync because:

she's right and you can't do the work in your budget at all because you aren't aware of all the extra necessities

Or she's wrong and you can do the work much less expensively because she's budgeting for a Ferrari standard of materials when you only want a B&Q kitchen and bathroom fitted.

Huge extra costs come from doing the work legally and safety, like specially designed scaffolding with weekly checks, the design and then safe maintenance of the excavation work throughout the build, asbestos remove quickly goes into the tens of thousands.

It's important you see a breakdown of the costs as she's claiming them - not just the totted up figure.

Why is she saying its so high? Where is the bulk of the cost coming from?

Will she be acting as Principal Designer throughout the build? Does she understand her duties under CDM? Has she discussed this with you?

At 4 x the budget she is not listening to the brief. This is a bad sign this early on. Designing to the cost envelope is a fundamental requirement.

My limited experience with architects is that they come in two flavours

• practical and technical but not very imaginative
• imaginative and aspirational but not very practical

I tried to wrestle the practicalities out of our imaginative architect with limited success. In the end I had to pay for additional input.

Frankly I would just say to this one thanks but no thanks as you are clearly not on the same page, and find someone a bit more suited to your budget and needs.

I would change to someone who fits your brief - ask the local builder who he's worked with in the past.
If your architect has a reputation for "premium" but you're aiming for something more "family home" you're not working to the same objective and honestly you'll have this battle at every stage whether it's basements, lightening fixtures or even just taps! She may come with prestigious references or past work, but she sounds like she's not for you.

I told my favourite architect (listens to me, not just my husband) our budget and she told me that it was unrealistic and that she would expect one element to cost more than that. But she then told me what I could do instead and worked out a really good compromise. She is excellent but I have found it massively varies. I have spoke with other architects- again been up front about my total budget and they haven’t really engaged. I can now see that they have focused on their fees in their quotations rather than how much it will cost me to get the work done. I think it is a real skill as an architect to listen and it is not all architects who can.

I've been a QS for 40 years, and have worked with very few architects who understand, or are interested in, budgets.

But from your posts, I'd be more concerned about the communications you're having (or not, as it seems) - if they are this bad at answering questions now, she wont get better going forward. Look at the contract you have with her, and see if you can terminate that, and find another. And ask for recommendations from them from previous clients.