The government are stuck between a rock and hard place regarding early prison releases.

[Kaidaia]

Let me stress I’m not in agreement with prisoners not serving full/ adequate sentences

However I’m not sure what the answer is

1. build more prisons or expand the prisons already there- there would be outcry. No one wants a prison near them or the prisons getting bigger
2. review who should be sent to prison and for what in the first place- again there would be outcry

I just think there is no easy answer

Think about a woman doing 500k fraud is yes it sounds awful but put in context of how many companies go bankrupt through owners sticking wverything in expenses or paying themselves hugely or into their pensions.

Ultimately the punishment is the deterrent so it has to be long. For 500k a person earning even 50k (and taxes too) easily 10 probably 20 years so if they dont recover the money…

Similarly the man who didnt report his mum dead.

I wonder if increased adhd diagnosis and meds will decrease crime longer term? Or crime could get worse as more laxer parenting and no consequences at home for most kids.

It isnt just the cost of prison its
prison
cost of the crime/ investigation/policing jury etc potential cost of another trial/catching evidence etc if they reoffend.
If gov choose to not imprison paedos or murderers etc greater impacts on children/society.
So the ‘cost’ to society of all the damaged people.

unfortunately i think a very high % will steal if they have access to money. And that could be getting higher as COL but also resentment over things like inequality/wages/benefits.

Prisons is a big like all uk infrastructure- old. We dont seem to invest in it or new hospitals etc

Lots of people quite like prison. It’s routine, it’s stability, it’s being popular, it’s everyone knowing your name. It’s a detox (sometimes). It’s a break from bills, loan sharks, cuckooinh, sexual and domestic abuse. It’s a lot of things.

Having had an insight into how public money is spent, there really is no lack of funds. It's incompetence, poor decision making, lack of strategic thinking and staff from top to bottom who have no commercial acumen. There's more than enough money in the system. There's just no one capable enough running the show.

I get that but I still don't want rapists out on the street because of his anger issues whilst he attends his rehab counselling.

Where? There's 1500 houses being built just around the corner from me. There's another 500 a mile away. That's just off the top of my head and within a one mile radius of me.

So keep them there. I don't want them back out on the streets, free to continue their crime spree.

There was an item on Women's hour last week advocating for exactly this.

Then there will be no room for new prisoners.

I'm happy to decide. Release a financial fraudster or release a violent man with anger issues who has convictions for rape, gbh, domestic assault and animal abuse. Hhmmm, tough call but...I think I'll keep the man in prison.

We could step up and deport criminals before they offend. We could stop criminals entering the country in the first place. We could suspend visas from countries with the highest offending rate.

The first one opened last year, the second is in build.

Simple answer - re-open Dartmoor prison

They can't. Even if you don't care about the prisoners health, who in their right mind would work there now that the health risks are known? The MoJ is currently facing lawsuits from over 500 ex-staff and prisoners who have contracted radon-related cancer.

If everyone shared a cell thete would be an extra 52,000 to 64,500 places in prison
with 60/75% not sharing currently

We don’t need so many new prisons we need bunk beds and more staff depending on how much they are allowed out of their cells

I agree foreign prisoners should be deported to serve their time in their own country

Other cost saving exercises
-stop giving prisoners
wages / pocket money
They shouldn’t have tuck shops, its prison

-Stop providing such wide ranging menues. One choice per meal would save on waste and cost of production

-Everyone should work. If they are studying they can do it when not working.

Some people have such dreadful lives (for a variety of reasons) that prison and it's relative safety is an improvement.

The prison system doesn't operate in a vacuum, so other elements of government policy need work and improvement.

Any government, especially this one, seems to be firefighting at the moment.

How about early release ONLY for non potentially violently dangerous criminals, i.e. those who are in prison for financial crimes, tax/benefit fraud, TV licence evasion, and for relatively low-level violent crimes (i.e. fighting when drunk etc) or drink/drugged driving, when they can be "controlled" in other ways and hit in the pocket by maybe "buying" sentence reductions, or forfeit the proceeds of their crimes, etc.

Those in prison for murder, domestic violence, rape, GBH, etc should never be released early.

There are women's prisons, full mostly of shoplifters, fraudsters and addicts. They could consider releasing non violent women and converting a women's prison to house violent men.

I heard that suggested as a pragmatic answer yesterday and I think it's being considered.

BTW I also hear yesterday on LBC that the previous government closed 23 jails. What happened to those buildings? Or is finding staff the problem?

I was wondering today whether the issue is prison space or staffing.

The government are building new prisons. They opened at least two new prisons last year. They are REALLY struggling to staff them. They (incredibly stupidly if you ask anyone who works on the wings) did a big recruitment drive, then revoked the work visas for hundreds of excellent, experienced, competent, hard working prison staff who then left the country and felt so let down by our government that it's unlikely they would return if asked. Then the new people struggled to cope because they were inexperienced, with basic training and many left, leaving the service vastly understaffed.

Early releases also massively overwhelmed approved premises and probation. Many AP staff left or went on sick causing some to close, making it even harder to place those very risky people who arguably should still be in prison. Probation's main union have issued a notice of no confidence in the employer and are consulting staff on potential industrial action - they have several press releases and you tube videos.

Not to mention the poor staff who work with victims and have to pass the message on that people are coming out very early with relatively little notice.

Not at all. They simply need to calculate which of the two options will cost the most votes.

And if opinion in Reading West is anything to go by, an early release for PC Harper's killers could well cost them the seat.

El Salvador’s mega prison was built in 7 mths . Why is our build program just so slow .

I’ve got another suggestion. Actually prioritise kids who have traumatic and chaotic childhoods. Kids who we know will be more likely to commit crimes than other children based on the sheer amount of ACEs they have. You go to prison (and I do for work) it’s not full of middle class kids who had brilliant childhoods. It’s full of men who grew up in houses where abuse was normal, no one was coping, things were hard, they had undiagnosed conditions such as ADHD, learning disabilities, brain injuries, autism. They witnessed horrific stuff, or sexual abuse. So many men have been sexually abused. It just leaves them furious at the world and vigilant.
Seeking power. Seeking control.

True, but surely imprisoning the father for his violence (and not letting him out early) gives the mother and children time to work with services on their trauma, reducing the impact of ACEs and increasing the chances of their mother leaving him for good to provide a more stable future.

Taking it further, decrease prison time and increase non custodial sentences enough and what victim is going to risk reporting a crime if it will make their abuser angrier and back on their doorstep in no time. Don't get me wrong I'm a big fan of non custodial cases in many cases, but sometimes they need to go to prison for the victims, and for themselves.

Until better, faster, free residential rehab is put in place as an alternative to custody, as they do in other countries I can't see how we can sustainably reduce the prison population. Many of the early releases just relapse and are recalled, increasing the strain on services.

Well pretty simple - first off deport all the foreign nationals that shouldn't be imprisoned at taxpayers' expense in this country send back to their country of origin that'll get rid of a few thousand!