Andy Burnham’s coup

[Sandysandybeaches]

I’m feeling increasingly annoyed and worried about this.
He seems like a decent chap and clearly popular in Manchester but it feels increasingly ‘off’ that he is arriving like done kind of messiah to save us all. It feels like an arrogance and very undemocratic. Were there really no Labour mps up to the job?
His aims and vision sound great but there was nothing about how he’ll actualy achieve it and I worry that people will soon feel let down and the trust in mainstream parties will be broken even further.

Thr focus on Manchester I find worrying from someone who wants to run the entire country. How does an extra layer of admin in other place help everyone else who still lives somewhere peripheral? No offence to Mancunians but they’re even further from me than London and I am not interested in the place, in fact it sounds like rural areas, the south west and north east will be even more ignored.

It does feel increasingly like a bloodless coup.

I agree that in amongst the genuine questions and concerns and differences of opinions, there is alot of testing of attack lines going on in these threads.

And to be honest, I think they’re going to have to try harder - because the majority of people are not going to look at a man who went from a state school to Cambridge and think “thick”; and they’re not going to look at a former cabinet minister who successfully ran a major city region and think “inexperienced”.

But why do you see bots in posters who oppose Labour but not in those who cheerlead?

Nooo I think mn is great. It’s not algorithms and you do actually have to read different pov. The annoying part is the bot accusation due to that.

What about the OPs on the Burnham threads? Do they ever come back and engage? Do you recognise these posters from other threads? Some of the headings are quite provoking, others contain American spelling, etc....

I’m sure you see Bots in both, but at the moment - Labour are the party in power, and so naturally there is more interest in discrediting and destabilising them.

And more interest in boosting them, surely?

Interesting - I’m genuinely not an expert, my understanding is that traditionally the right have been more effective at manipulating algorithms - particularly on Meta and X, although that doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen both ways (and maybe it’s a leftwing Bot that’s persuaded me to think that!!)

There was a bar to entry when loads of people wanted to join to get Jeremy Corbyn in. Labour mysteriously barred loads of people from joining/voting. The whole skeevy way that they tried to block people engaging with politics then how JC was forced out was childish and grubby and has put me right off Labour tbh because regardless of how great the guy at the top is, there’s a cohort of people in the party who have their own agenda and create division and infighting that literally stopped them functioning as an effective opposition.
But I suppose I’m a Russian bot for saying anything against Mother Labour Party. 😂

Teresa May was replaced by BJ, who was replaced by LT and then RS. All without an election. Before that Thatcher was replaced by John Major. It’s how our constitution works. You elect the party and the party appoints the PM. If they don’t like the PM they replace them.

Me too.

this sniping - you right voters are desperate for political chaos aren’t you?

They are terrified of Burnham and increasingly desperate faced with the chance he might succeed. False patriots.

Yep.

He's going to have to pull off some pretty impressive feats, and I highly doubt he has it in him.

It will be Russian cyber operatives trying to get "a line" on how to continue trying to destabilise a western democracy.

Right. Because god forbid anyone question or criticise a politician in this Brave New World, eh?

Desperate for political chaos?

Not as much as the PLP who undermined the PM's action by being totally delulu and blocking the reforms the majority of the population wants. Like their job is to represent the voters, not to impose their personal views, if someone could remind them, would be lovely, thx.

Not as much as the 3-time failed chancer, political careerist without a backbone, who has been making some noise for at least 9 months (without even trying to think much of a program once he is in office btw) to topple the government.

Not as much as the man whose greatest idea so far has been to pit the country against each other, is being treated like a God descending on Westminster and not just like a MP who won a byelection.

For chaos, the left is pretty self-sufficient.
And they had promised us it would never be like Boris again. And it is. Even worse. Don't blame the right.

I agree.

The big headache for any government, but especially a Labour one, is tackling public spending. Given the political centre of gravity of the Labour party - MPs and members - taking slices out of public expenditure will be met with howls of outrage. Especially as money for the military looks to be at least ring-fenced for the foreseeable future, and more likely will have to increase sharply.

Look at what happened to Starmer’s attempt to curb welfare even very, very modestly.

Personally, I think it’s inevitable that there will have to be big cuts in social spending because growth won’t be nearly enough to generate the vast tax receipts we’ll require. But I can’t see a Labour PM doing it, whether Burnham or any other Labour figure.

There are already a lot of sour grapes about Burnham. He is somebody that will be a tougher problem than Starmer for the right. Doesn’t mean he won’t have to deliver, but definitely more difficult to displace.

that is party say not public say

The problem is that we end up with Trojan Horse type governments which I would argue the BJ to LT transfer was and this is one too. This is where parties get in on relatively moderate tickets and then when they get into power they attempt to swing dramatically to the left or right. I think this should be explicitly banned as what is to stop for example a right wing party getting into power with a moderate manifesto and then using their majority to almost immediately implement radical right wing policies that nobody has actually voted for?

If Andy Burnham's ideas are that good then why can't he win an election off the back of them? He wants to be the leader of change but has no mandate to deliver it. Why do this when he could get elected fair and square?

I was about to agree with you. I hate the comment about being thick as two short plans etc.

BUT I voted for Labour in part to get away from political chaos. This route into the top job and then announcing policies which were nowhere near the manifesto of the leader at the helm when I voted just feels like more of the same.

Also coming in this way mean the expectations on him will be enormous. He has initiated a land grab. The country didn’t vote for him (and yes I know how the political system works) and so people will be far more aggrieved when his policies affect them negatively. I don’t think they’ll be much of a honeymoon period at all.

I’ve been hugely disappointed in the whole party.

That’s fine. I like Kemi a lot but prefer Burnham over Starmer. If he does what he intends and it works then great.

One caveat: it stays with the hope message rather than tax them high divisive policy.

For Labour MPs who have found government a slog and were so spooked by the opinion polls that they ousted a landslide-winning leader within just two years, if Burnham can simply make politics fun again he will earn their support.
(Henry Zeffman, BBC).

Hopefully they will work hard as well?

I don’t think he will be a tougher opponent at all. I think he will be a much easier target.

Firstly, because he doesn’t have a mandate for HIS policies. This never goes down well. Yes this is part of the political process and there are many precedents but they largely not successful.

Both AB and KS are acting like they got a solid mandate to move towards the left. They did not. They benefitted from Tory corruption and chaos. The rise of Reform (God help us) is showing there is no appetite in the country to move left. Quite frankly, living my middle of the road life in a very ordinary house in an unglamorous London suburb which we bought 25 years ago, not starving but not holidaying in the Caribbean, I am sick of being treated as if I walk in diamond shoes.

Quoting Claudian
“Men are raised on high in order that they may fall more heavily”.

Or in plain English- the higher they rise the faster they fall. Might be apt for poor old Andy in the not too distant future.

I doubt that a new leader will make any difference to MPs’ willingness to work. I’m happy to think that most MPs of all parties are busy and put their backs into it.

Burnham’s great fear will be if the King of the North turns out early to be a dud. Campaigning for PM like Starmer did and then failing is one thing; being feted as the outsider coming to the village to make the crops grow and keep the bandits away, and then failing, is quite another.

If public opinion cools on Burnham quickly, he’ll have a fast descent.

Just like to point out, none of these were exactly successful and Labour called foul every time.