When will people realise that pensioners have paid for their state pension.

[notsafeanymore]

Every time there is a debate about the cost of living pensioners get a bashing.
And some have also paid for a private pension.
It's people who have never worked that should be targeted first.
I'm not on about the disabled. It's people who are benefit cheats and have never worked.

I have 8 years to go before I get my state pension. I’ve paid tax and NI for over 40 years. I’ve never claimed any sort of benefit (and I know I’m fortunate to have not needed to) but I’ve factored the state pension into my retirement plans. When I started work the retirement age was 60 but I fully support that it has been raised and equalised with men. I wouldn’t have an issue if it was raised slightly more if it was needed.

Technically I’ve not paid into a pot, I know that, but do I feel I’ve paid towards my state pension. Yes I do. And why should I be less entitled to it when I finally stop work than my friend who hasn’t worked for years although could do so if they chose to?

And state pension is low compared to many other countries in Europe, 12 grand a year a lot

@Zigoo you can’t compare like for like as many are based on what you actually paid in unlike ours. Plus there isn’t the same private pension provision.

Technically I’ve not paid into a pot, I know that, but do I feel I’ve paid towards my state pension. Yes I do.

Well you have paid towards state pensions, just not your own. You paid for previous generations of pensioners.

Give over. Today’s pensioners benefited from things younger generations can only dream of, mostly because today’s pensioners pulled up the bridge after themselves.

What about all the women who were SAHMs? I suspect a fair few haven't paid for it.

Can you let us know what you have done personally (as opposed to just living in the times you were born into) to help future generations that you think today's pensioners didn't do? And can you give an example of how individual pensioners have 'pulled up the bridge after themselves'?

Quite.

Technically, yes, people pay NI not into a pot for themselves, but for the current pensioners. But - crucially - they do so on the understanding that it's on a quid pro quo basis. When it's their turn, they will receive. That's the deal. It's a social contract.

The changing demographics now mean the current set up is unaffordable going forward. The problem is that retirement planning takes decades. You can't just pull the rug out from people only 10, 15 or even 20 years before hey can draw their pension. We need to have confidence that we can make financial decisions for the future. Or nobody will bother to save anything.

The other issue is the CoL, the erosion of living standards over the last 20 years, and the fact that many jobs now don't pay enough to cover present bills while also allowing for saving for the future.

It's all a mess. It needs to be carefully rearranged, but this will take quite some time and a government with balls, whereas our political system rewards parties who act in the short term.

This, the economy is fucked tbh because of demographics & the refusal to acknowledge that an ageing population is expensive.

Any discussion about pensions, fairness or affordability should also include unfunded DB public sector pensions. It is impossible to have a balanced debate about the long-term sustainability of retirement provision without considering one of the largest pension liabilities on the public balance sheet.

no it wouldn’t. it well recognised that public sector is worse paid than private sector. (apart from pay for the young which is good as they are not ageist so dont reduce it for lack of experience the way private sector could).

So pension benefits are considered like a ‘deferred benefit’ that makes up for this lower pay. it’s part of a package that staff are prepared to work for.

If you take the employer contribution down or stop it then you’d have to put wages up or you’d have no staff!

What you need is MORE of them to catch benefit cheats and tax avoiders, more police to catch criminals etc. and get Proceeds Of Crime. Bring IN more money.

Oh and they changed the terms and conditions, (see the macleod judgement) so staff pay in more, work for longer, and get less out. So theyve already done what you suggest and cut things. There is also a job freeze on and 20% staffing cuts ongoing.

All of that probably seems fine to those not in their employ, but just wait until YOU need YOUR benefits sorted or YOUR pension queries, youll need to wait for help because there are fewer staff. And you won’t like it. And then youll complain how bad it is and how they should be paid less for providing a crap service blah blah, so there will be more cuts and even fewer staff, whi will burn out and be off sick leaving fewer staff in the workplace…. it’s a vicious circle. But you can’t have it both ways!

Ha, exactly this. There seems to be a weird tug in this country to try and discourage people to earn.

If you means test it then everyone will just stop paying into private pensions. Why would you when you need such a huge amount. The state pension is worth a pension pot of about £300 000 which is incredibly hard to get to.

I don't know if you realise this, but in this economy there are people out there who have nothing (or less than nothing) left over once their bills are paid. Making provisions for retirement is a literal impossibility for some.

On the government gateway account it shows how many years you’ve paid NI for and how many you’ve got to go to get your full pension.
It may not be that we pay into our own pot but it is certainly presented that way.
I don’t think it will be possible to change it for anyone who is already in the work place as it’s factored into long term financial plans, people may save for a house rather than pension. If you remove the state pension from many people it will simply result in more poor people and that doesn’t help the economy

Im astounded most people wouldn’t have already made this assumption.

Im fully anticipating no help from the government whatsoever

Errr… that has already been the case for quite some time. Like 15 years, maybe more.
Unless the company is very small, everyone should paying into a company pension.

As for dying aged 75yo, my very cynical mind says that this is exactly what the Assisted Dying bill is about - see what an MP said: looking after people who are seriously ill for a long time is very costly so let’s give AD instead.

Perhaps if the economy cannot sustain state pensions then all benefits, in future, should be based on how many hours a person has worked each year. Who has actually contributed. Not how much they have earned, but who has put their backs into it rather than sat at home on their bums or done 16 hours a week.

I'd be happy with that !!

Im sure there are. But im sure we all know lots of people that spend an awful lot on money on going out and holidays that have no retirement plan. Particularly those that are self employed.

Yes - like a type of insurance that you pay for by working.

if you wanted to fund an equivalent state pension with an annuity at 67, I read that it would cost around £210,000. You’d need to pay at least £200 per month from 18-67 to build something like that up (with inflation and a bit of growth). NI covers lots of stuff, but if you pay less NI than that, then even taking into account that pensions aren’t funded and are paid for by the current generation of workers, your pension is a benefit and hasn’t been paid for.

you can get your NI payment history on your HMRC account and see how much you’ve paid over the years. So you can see if you are a “sponger or contributor”. As working benefits people are often called.

No one pays in as much as they receive.
Also I work with the elderly, all my current female clients were stay at home mums and never did paid work. They all receive a pension, pension credit and other benefits to cover housing and care. I do not begrudge this at all as they not be supported . But they have certainly not paid in.

So what is the solution (I agree it should be means tested, I mean I assume the Beckhams can draw the state pension in the future if they wish?). What do other first world countries do?

Why do you think this?

I’ve been Wonderimg about that.
The issue here is that leaving people with no income at all isn’t going to be very palatable for the electorate. Esp as it’s getting older.
Bit also that money (like the money received by disabled people) goes back directly into,the economy. Stopping pensions also means a big hit on the economy.

What I wouldn’t be surprised about is a sliding scale depending on what other revenues you have. A bit like care home fees

Not to derail, but I feel desperately sorry for the generations who will face decades of repaying tens of thousands for university, which those my age got completely free; then unachievably high housing costs with enormous mortgages for those who are able to get them; and then paying for the state pensions of my and older generations, whilst never receiving one themselves.

In the midst of all of that, they somehow have to find the means of paying for 100% of their own pensions.