When will people realise that pensioners have paid for their state pension.

[notsafeanymore]

Every time there is a debate about the cost of living pensioners get a bashing.
And some have also paid for a private pension.
It's people who have never worked that should be targeted first.
I'm not on about the disabled. It's people who are benefit cheats and have never worked.

Oh blimey - yes!! Thing is having lived in Denmark before, they are tough as hell on immigration - and yet within EU - it was all very doable within rules , but UK suffered the usual can’t be arsed syndrome, so rather than actually get some proper processes in they let Farage get the upper hand and we end up with a load of people ‘under the radar’ in plenty of instances who can never leave UK as they couldn’t get back in -I’m actually centre /centre left voter but also strongly believe the Danes had something by being tough on it - it kept the far right down enough(PR of course helps too) - as the rest of the far right agenda looked somewhat regressive and dismal to many , without the immigration card to focus on - it’s one reason amongst others I think the Greens have it totally wrong, - Denmark also had very strong limitations on what non Danes could receive/claim regardless of ‘need’ - back of the queue basically - however balanced with that were many expectations, most couples worked full time oras near as , very cheap and good childcare ‘regardless’ of income, a lot more good quality social housing, no council tax, no NI , free healthcare and much much higher tax than UK on average earnings, however much more was already ‘covered off’ from your take home.

No, no tax credits. If I hadn't worked then we would have been entitled but I did want to keep in the job market and have some financial independence.

Not all pensioners. Some pensioners now worked very little during their lives. There was a time when women were expected to give up work once they married.
They might also have been carers (my paternal gran was a carer for my grandad for most of their marriage) or SAHM.
There will be people approaching retirement age now who have not worked for many years due to disability.

The state pension is a giant ponzi scheme which is about to collapse. I will be eternally grateful for the only bit of good advice my father ever gave me, which was to explain this, and have paid into a private scheme since graduation.

That's a whole discussion in itself.

The short, simplified answer.

The best way to grow the economy is to create the conditions that encourage people and businesses to invest, take risks, innovate and create jobs. Which is ironic given that Innovation has historically been something this country has prided itself on. But innovation and risk don't just need money for investment they need stability, sensible regulation, reasonable taxes, strong property rights, good infrastructure and a motivated skilled workforce.

Without the conditions for growth, you get exactly where we are now. The myth of "taxing for growth" and attempts to redistribute "wealth" that has not yet been created

We only need mass immigration if there are jobs for them all and they actually work in well paying jobs, paying taxes etc. that don't displace our existing working age population.

How do we achieve that?

We already have relatively high unemployment, especially young unemployment.

How do we "force" immigrants to actually work in decent jobs, paying decent amounts of tax, and not become a burden by being benefit claimants themselves?

I think the poster knows that and is suggesting that it shouldn’t be the case.

Without the conditions for growth, you get exactly where we are now. The myth of "taxing for growth" and attempts to redistribute "wealth" that has not yet been created

Things aren’t going to change are they? How depressing.

Ah,ok.

More affordable housing I'm guessing is the big one

If you mean workplace pensions - where both employee and employer pay in, these have been compulsory for anyone earning over £10k, over 22 since 2012…. And probably before that lots of people would have still had one. Or before that be more likely to have benefitted from a defined benefit employer scheme.

I’m not sure pensioners do get a bashing by millennials over pensions. I think the biggest issue is probably house price inflation vs wage inflation. And yes, people complain but not that it’s somehow the fault of pensioners.

It’s a fact that pensions are the biggest part of the welfare bill. It’s a problem that will only grow as we live longer and birth rates decline. I don’t know what the answer is but it needs overhaul. Pensioners need those millennials to pay to fund their pensions. Paying NI isn’t like a savings account - the current pensioners during their working life, we’re funding the state pensions of the generation before.

Of course anyone would agree that benefit fraud is wrong. But I’m just not sure the perception is reality in how often it happens. The data shows the numbers are tiny when compared to, for example, tax evasion. https://www.bigissue.com/news/social-justice/dwp-disability-benefit-fraud-pip/

I think a lot of people are under the impression that everybody ages and enjoys good health at the same rate - and then some stay alive but couldn't possibly do any more work and others just arbitrarily die off.

In practice, some people face huge health challenges - and certain kinds of heavy manual work can accelerate their inability to work at a younger age than others with sedentary jobs.

To put it bluntly, some people's 40 (or even younger) can be equivalent to other people's 80. One has to struggle massively and be forced to keep working - after all, if they don't, they are these terrible lazy workshy benefits people, unlike the pensioners with their hard-earned entitlements - and may actually die before reaching the state pension age and get nothing; the other may reach SPA in decent health and live for another mainly-pleasant 20 or more years of leisure.

I'm not saying that the latter people shouldn't freely enjoy this; but the whole idea of people who are fortunate to live long, mainly healthy lives being the noble, deserving ones with their just reward, whilst the others who struggle hugely and won't ever get a whiff of a state pension are criticised for being on benefits and told how lucky they apparently are.

It wasn’t compulsory for all employers to pay in until 2018.
Larger firms were targeted first

So as per bloody usual those who've done sweet fuck all to earn a pension get one. We're now at the stage where's there's a generation who've not held down a job for long enough to pay any decent amount of NI.

You're arguing that they get a full pension whereas those of us who've lurched on through thick and thin, and did without so we could save, are penalised. Yet again.

No tuition fees, cheap housing, booming economy, gold plated pensions. The pensioners gave us brexit. They should take some of the hit too. Triple lock needs to go and the winter fuel. Starmer should have stuck to his guns.

We're now at the stage where's there's a generation who've not held down a job for long enough to pay any decent amount of NI.

A whole generation that has hardly worked? Which generation?

But they haven’t. Thd money didn’t go into a pot and grow so the pensioners today are withdrawing what they paid in with interest.

and I’ll go a step further - all benefits, including state pension (and yes, it’s a benefit because as with all benefits the state pension is paid out in greater amounts than what was put in via contributions) should be means tested

We are? Can you show me where you d got that information from?

Also if you’ve had the good fortune to be able to save money then frankly, one can hardly complain.

A lot of boomer and silent generation women won’t have worked at all.

Aside from them, 🤷

Quite.

Why then if you miss a few years, do you get the chance to "top up" so that you can get more pension?

Not at all. But people used to earn and pay for childcare from their earnings.

That’s basically what the government has been saying for years. That’s why workplace pensions were introduced and why the state pension age keeps going up. It’s not the government’s fault if people aren’t paying attention.

Well they basically have by making “private” pensions ease mandatory unless you opt out. If you work place doesn’t have a pension scheme you are put onto the government back pension scheme. I used to work for a multi million pound company and we were all put into that as they didn’t have a pension provider in place

Agree with all of this.