Will lessons really be learnt after this tragic child abuse case?

[Tolkienista]

The horrific case of baby Preston Davey sickeningly abused by his adoptive parents (a teacher and his partner) concluded in a guilty verdict in court yesterday.
The details are too traumatic to contemplate the awful end of this child's life.
Once again the age old phrase "lessons will be learnt" has been quoted and I have to say, will they?

I know life is extremely complicated & I'm in no doubt that the killer of Preston was manipulative, cold hearted and extremely secretive in covering up his abuse of this defenceless little child.
I guess that because abuse generally takes place behind closed doors, child abuse will sadly always be a part of our society.

Utterly utterly tragic.

He was joking when he told his sister Preston was dead meat. When he told his colleague he was thinking of drowning and suffocating Preston he was being serious

Then it was a failure of his colleague not to report him.

I just looked up Adoption Now, the agency which placed Preston.

I saw this - what is this organisation they work with?

I'm aware of this but where are you going to draw the line ?
Will it be women only able to adopt ? no men whatsoever ?
There are plenty of gay men who make good parents as well as plenty of heterosexuals who are equally good parents.
And there are plenty examples of abusive heterosexual people .
I don't know the answers but i don't think it's fair to say that gay men should not be able to adopt.

This!

This.

What a ridiculously narrow-minded comment. There are hundreds of gay parents, men or women who are amazing, loving parents.
women are just as capable of unspeakable horrors, remember Star Hobson who was killed by her mother’s girlfriend (granted she wasn’t adopted). It was horrific.

the issue is not the fact that it was two gay men, but the fact that it was two utterly vile, sick, horrible men who did what they did.

Myra Hindley was with a man, Rose West was with her husband - should a man and woman together not be allowed to adopt either?!

Totally agree but people call us narrow minded.

Sorry I was replying to @Cioccoholic but didn't quote properly.

This thread will show you that I am very much not alone in thinking non verbal babies should not be adopted by two men. No one is saying there aren't many horrible women. But the statistics are irrefutable.
Adopting a baby is not a right. And we need to do absolutely everything possible to ensure that the chances of this type of thing happening are as reduced as possible. If (and, as I say, if) that means gay men can't adopt babies, then so be it.

Baby star abused/ killed by a traveller they didn't want to see prejudiced.

All this thread has shown is that people are capable of vile horrific actions, and all people seem to be jumping on is that they are two gay men, not two men, two gay men!
I truly never realised how much homophobia is alive and well still

It doesn't matter if they are gay or not. It's the fact they are two men. It's not remotely homophobic.

You'll find many similar concerns expressed here

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5519640-how-can-i-stop-thinking-about-a-distressing-news-article-trigger-warning?page=9&reply=152973494

There is absolutely nothing homophobic about saying statistically a baby is safer when there is a female caregiver. Not safe. Safer.

None of this was said when Star’s mother and her girlfriend killed her; that was just awful but there was nothing said about two women bringing up a child. The fact of the matter is this hits differently because it’s two gay men adopting something which has happened many times over the years, not all men are the same. Many gay men have adopted and provide loving caring homes; what these vile creatures have done should not be held against gay men, or men

Yes. Nothing was said. Because it's not about being homophobic. It's about babies needing a female caregiver.

It's really not difficult.

Which is my point - female caregivers are just as capable of doing something as bad, as history will show. Children need loving caring people to take care of them, regardless of gender

Statistically you're wrong.

^I agree with this, sadly. I think there should always be a woman involved in a baby placement.

For sexual abuse, men are absolutely a greater risk. But for other types of abuse, I’d need to see data to form an opinion.

It’s the sexual abuse that makes this so harrowing it’s the most sadistic fucked up thing I’ve ever read and the fact they both had good jobs so must have had high iqs while stars mother had an abysmally low iq (not an excuse at all and not saying her killers were not also evil)

Star also wasn’t adopted, one of the mums was her biological mother

You are right, and i said above that in this case Star wasn't adopted - the only point i was trying to make was that women are just as capable as men, granted not as likely as men but it does and has happened.

I truly wish these discussions never have to take place, my heart is broken for that poor little lad

They lost control of their anger and beat her to death, not at all trying to minimise that of course it is also evil but Preston’s adoptive dad’s sexual abuse of him is very depraved if you put two and two together to work out how he died.

Women can do sick things of course but let’s be honest here it’s a lot more likely to be a man

Agreed. No one is saying women don't murder children - look at Emma tustin.

We know that children are more at risk from people who they are not biologically related to. We also know that they are more at risk from men.

If we want things to change we have to look at everything. Because otherwise more than 50 children a year will continue to be murdered in plain sight.

@Imnotperfecteitheryes, Stars mums did a truly awful thing, as did Sara Sharif’s stepmom are there many cases where it is the female adopter, though? Is there proof that women are as likely to adopt a child for terrible reasons?

I guess what I am getting at is that there is a difference between the state failing to act where a child is harmed and actually choosing to place a child with someone who harms them. Both are equally horrific for the child and I am not diminishing that. But as regards the state’s role, the second one is also about vetting not just safeguarding. Do we give people who are more likely to abuse children the benefit of the doubt when we decide who takes a child? I guess that is the question .

We know that children are more at risk from people who they are not biologically related to. We also know that they are more at risk from men
@IdBeLionIfISaid I'd say it follows from that a male couple of should never be allowed to adopt.