How do you handle a low effort and draining MIL?

[WhoaNellie]

I was reading an article about 'low effort' families and how their lack of curiosity or interest in your life i.e. success, failures, day to day is toxic because they thrive on superficial conversation which is transactional in nature.

According to what I read, this is normally guided and controlled by the most senior member of a family and others just tend to follow suit.

This reminds me of my MIL. She never asks me about work, my day to day, how I feel, what I'm thinking but expects me to do it for her. When I blank her for months, because I see no reason to open up a discussion that inevitably becomes toxic i.e. all about her, she complains that no one talks to her.

So, because I feel guilty because she's older and has weird ideas about communication and relationships which I assume are as a result of some sort of past trauma, I go out of my way to check in. But, every single time, she acts like she's too busy to talk, when the conversation moves away from her and then the cycle starts again.

Does anyone else know someone like this? Would you view them as toxic? Damaged? Lost cause? In need of sympathy or compassion?

I find I am just exhausted with the effort of this relationship and I have pretty much congratulated myself for finally unlinking myself from a tangled web of what this article states is "emotional abuse" but I just have this niggling feeling that I should do more for someone who hasn't had an easy life or doesn't have the emotional/intellectual capacity for introspection but still has feelings.

My mil is like this. She seems to know nothing about her dc, gc or me. If you asked her what her ds job was, she'd have no idea. What school her GC go to...no idea. She knows nothing about me. If we see her she doesn't talk about her self that much...rambles on about random stuff, tells us she prays for us. Before anyone asks she doesn't have dementia. I can only assume it's a poor upbringing where she was not taught any social skills.

I don’t know why you would feel guilty? Surely it’s her children who should be taking the lead in any relationship. I would keep out of it.

So, because I feel guilty <…> I go out of my way to check in.
There is your problem. Between guilt and unreasonable behaviour, always choose guilt. Accept you will feel guilty about it, accept that you shouldn’t and don’t do anything about it.

My MIL is a bit deer in the headlights, socially awkward, can’t have more than small talk sort of conversation.

I just let Dh deal with her. He meets her somewhere with the dc 80% of the time. A few times a year she comes over for dinner and we make small talk and it’s fine.

She’s not my mum though and not my responsibility to manage. Dh does the socialising and facilitates dc’s relationships with her.

Because when we were both younger, we were more like friends. I think I mourn that time and see her in that way even though that's obviously changed or is only one sided.

That’s a shame, but it’s like when someone stays in an abusive relationship because they hark back to the early version of the partner.

You need to deal with the version you have in front of you now.

Back off. There are some people on my life who like me more when i contact them less.

My MIL never asks me any questions about my life. I used to make an effort and go round to see her when my (now) husband did, but gave up in the end. I now let my husband do all that. He goes to visit her and calls her etc. I see her a few times a year (her birthday and Xmas). She has got a bit better (we’ve been together 8.5 years) but still isn’t a great conversationalist. I think it’s because she sits at home by herself all day and has forgotten how the world works and how to talk to people.

Ok. Thanks for sharing that information but she wants me to contact her more for the reasons stated. I am the one who backed off.

I 100% relate to this! DH is talking to her a lot more these days and handling get togethers, dates, food preferences etc and I just play hostess which I'm okay with if that's what makes everyone happier.

I have wondered if age plays a part in all of this. She seems to have changed a few years after she retired and I don't know if the lack of social, apart from FB and BBC, has meant that she's forgotten how to communicate. She has told me that she's lonely etc and I feel that she is honest about this but any attempts to bond with her, through shared experiences e.g. are rejected with changing the subject or something else that completely dismisses or minimises any input.

I think this is why I have the guilt. My natural instinct is to just leave her alone to protect my own peace but it makes me feel like I've abandoned her to her self-imposed doom.

There was a thread recently op on here about elderly people just talking at others rather than listening and asking questions. It might have been on the elderly parents board. Anyway the consensus was that it is a common trait as people age...maybe due to a smaller social circle/world in general.

I mean my mil has always been like this but the fact yours wasn't is interesting.

Fwiw I work in a job where I come into contact with many elderly people who just talk at me in entire monologues about their life. What you say to them is irrelevant and ignored. You are basically just a face to talk at.

I think some people who are lonely can still be selfish. We usually think of those who are lonely as wanting to know all about other people’s lives but it doesn’t always work like that.
I was baffled initially as, granted, she doesn’t have anything to say, but I have a really interesting job, so she could easily ask me “how has work been” and I could talk to her about that etc. Nothing.
She does have slight mental health issues and is almost agoraphobic, so I think she just can’t hold a normal conversation anymore and has lived in an insular world for a long time now (she used to be a pub landlady so was very sociable back in the day).
Saying that, if anything happened to my husband (god forbid), I would feel obliged to look after her and keep her company sometimes (her daughter does nothing and leaves it all to my husband).
I’d leave it to your husband. There’s no need for you to feel guilty. She is his responsibility, not yours, and you’ve tried.

Yes, I think you have my situation through your experience 100% and communicated it very eloquently. I did assume that, because she was lonely, she'd want to know (or at least pretend to want to know) about others as a way to expand on conversations, bond etc. And, like you, I assumed that it would be easy for her to ask questions about job etc since she sits around in her house all day so wouldn't have the same distractions as working/younger people.

I know she was on valium when she was younger and went through some hardships but I don't remember them presenting this way before. I have thought she might be suffering from dementia so me and DH do subtle "health checks" but we can't see any evidence of this so maybe you're just spot on.

Thank you. I feel so guilty it keeps me up at night because I don't want to abandon someone I once greatly loved and who I am thankful helped in the creation of my DH etc so permission to let go is a great burden unleashed.

It's just I don't know how to react when she says she's lonely other than to address it in the moment and move on as though it was never said. Kind of like she does when I tell her things, I guess.

My dad is like this. Rarely asks about his two grandsons. We used to be really close but now the conversation is mainly about what he has been doing. Sometimes he says "I'm here if you want to talk" but now I just don't bother.
Does he have dementia? Probably but he won't get tested so 😔

If she has changed drastically from how she used to be then I would assume some health issues going on.

It's been very gradual, over the span of 10 years or so, so not drastic in a short time. She does, however, hint that she's worried about dementia because this is what my FILs mum died from but I don't know if she's hinting about herself. She's also said when FIL forgets things and says it's her that forgot, she's gets angry because she worries it is her...

She is a very neurotic, anxious person. Clingy, needy and aloof at the same time.

It's a lot.

I now follow Newton's Third Law of Motion, (every action has an equal and opposite reaction).

I will mirror the amount of effort the other person puts into the relationship. I spent too many years being the person that made all the effort to remain in touch, etc.

Has their life shrunk? You say she is lonely but FIL still around? Do they have a social life?

If they are not seeing other people, have less social interaction then they start to lose the ability to converse in the same way they used to. It is much more effort for them, it is start of cognitive decline

FIL is around but she is always (and has always) treated him like an inferior. More like a child than a husband. They have zero social life. We used to see them every 2 weeks, they asked for us to see them once a month and now they have moved it to only on the holidays of their choosing. We have accepted we might not be their cup of tea, for whatever reason, and suggested they find hobby groups with people closer to their age, area etc but this is very much rejected. They have never been social, apart from when they worked, but this was out of obligation. She has always had fractious relationships with other women e.g. her own mother, her MIL, our SIL, her SIL...I'm the only one still standing!

My MiL isn’t a difficult woman but makes no effort at all, you ask her a question and you get one and two word answers, if you ask follow up questions to try and open up the conversation you get the same response and so I feel like it’s an interrogation rather than a conversation.

We’ve been married nearly 40 years and it’s always been the same. She rarely initiates any contact and I do so only out of guilt/obligation.

Over the years we’ve taken her on holiday, theatre trips etc and her most enthusiastic response is along the lines of ‘it was nice’ which drives me mad!!!

My husband understands my frustration but doesn’t share it as he says she has always been the same and so he is used to it - you’d think after 40 years I’d be the same! I try hard to not take it personally but often fail.

Reading this back, I’ve changed my mind and think on reflection she is a difficult woman!!!!

@WhoaNellie you said you used to get on with her.

My DM has dementia, good days and bad days and just about living independently. Things very obviously changed about 2 years ago, but looking back there were definite signs of change about 10 years ago but we didn't really put two and two together then but with hindsight there were signs we missed.

She isn't making you feel guilty . you are creating that feeling, and feelings aren't facts. So work on creating another feeling.

Time to toughen up - you deal with the low effort by matching it.

OP you sound lovely. So you’re going through that ‘be the better person’ internal conversation.
Only you with your experience of the world can decide if you think that’s your responsibility and if it will avail you in the long run, Personally I veer between magnanimous tolerance towards difficult people and more selfish ignoring of those who take more than they give.
If she’s so self absorbed she doesn’t give anything back then I’d be inclined to deprioritise her. It’s difficult when people seem to have capacity to help themselves but don’t. Almost easier when they are helpless and you can just be a carer without resentment.
In general my main take was that you are spending mental energy considering how you can help this relationship but others involved- (her. Your DP) aren’t . What do you owe her?

I thought exactly the same thing! She is not interested! I know she also drives my husband mad but he feels very obligated to speak to her everyday and go round to see her.

It sounds a very similar situation. My MIL is slightly narcissistic and is very selfish. She thinks nothing of getting people to do her bidding (even if she barely knows them she has no shame in asking them to pick her up things and bring them around). I think she manipulates my husband massively. On the other hand, she can be thoughtful. It’s a double edged sword.

Definitely do not feel guilty. You have tried. She has her husband and her son to talk to and who can keep her company. Not your circus, not your monkeys!