One for the pedants: Impious

[AgentPidge]

I went to see Hamnet. There were (unsurprisingly) some quotes from Hamlet in the film, and one of them mentioned "impious stubbornness". Paul Mescal pronounced it like pious with -im at the beginning: im-PIE-us. But a tiny bell rang in my head, saying it should be IMP-ee-us. I mentioned it to the friend I was with - who happens to have taught Hamlet at A-level - and she said she'd say "im-PIE-us".
Next day, she sent me a screenshot from Cambridge dictionary backing her up, and mentioned a (robot-voiced) video on YouTube saying the same thing. But the first comment says it's incorrect - the correct way is IMP-ee-us. I looked in my old Chambers' and Collins dictionaries and they give IMP-ee-us as correct; one of them gives im-PIE-us as a N. American variant. Now this is not a word I've ever used, I don't think, and it's very likely that the 'correct' way has fallen out of use, but I'm interested in whether anyone was taught 'my' way at school. I also remember ignoble, also hardly used. TIA

I immediately said imp-ee-us in my head. And that's the only way I've ever heard it pronounced. Google gives this as the British pronunciation and im-pie-us as the American.

Im pee us

I'm British, 38 and have only ever heard/thought it be said 'im-pie-ous'.

I was never taught 'imp-EE-ous' but that isn't to say it's not correct or an acceptable variant. I suppose 'im-PIE-ous' is the instinctive pronunciation as it's the opposite of pious.

Well pious is pronounced pie-us not pee-us. So I would have gone for im-pie-us too. But don’t trust me, I’m Welsh and have a bit of a track record of mangling vowel sounds because our alphabets and associated pronunciations don’t align.

Impious means not pious. Pious is pronounced pie-us. The prefix doesn't change the pronunciation - and a prefix is all it is.

Given the meaning of the word and it's relationship to pious which has a well-established pronunciation, I would assume im-PIE-us would be correct.

I have a pretty good vocabulary but I've never heard the word, where are you all coming across it?

I'm not sure how i would have pronounced if I hadn't read the comments

Hello, I teach linguistics and language. Traditionally, British English has favoured stress on the first syllable of a word like this - LABoratory and here IMPious. But the stress shifting to the second syllable (labORAtory and imPIous) has been a thing for several decades and not necessarily because of American English influence. It's one of the really fun parts about linguistics, getting to see shifts in real time.

Because it's Shakespeare, and because of Iambic Pentamenter, the 'Of' at the beginning of the line would definitely have been unstressed, meaing the IMP of impious would have been stressed - this would make sense as it would emphasise Claudius's critical, admonishing tone of Hamlet! Of IMPious STUBBornous. Not perfect rhythm, but I'm pretty sure the IMP and STUB would both have been emphasised

But it’s not imperious, it’s impious! And we’re debating pee versus pie!

Pious people are " pie-us", not "pee-us".

But I've only ever heard " impios" pronounced as "im-pee-us".

I've made a fool of myself, ignore me. I just always read it as IMP-ee-us. Imp-AYE-us would ruin the meter.

I'm a tired idiot though (who loves Hamlet).

No you really haven’t, I totally get where you are coming from. I love Shakespeare - one of the best moments of my life was seeing Vanessa Redgrave as Prospero in the Globe. For my 21st I think! (I am ancient).

I also think that im-pee-us sounds like Puck having a wee in the bushes, or is it just me?!

I haven't seen Hamnet so I don't know the context but Claudius says the word impious in that speech to Hamlet that begins Tis sweet and commendable in your nature. It's the one where he's complaining that Hamlet is mourning to much (that father lost, lost his).

The lines are
"To persever / In obstinate condolement is a course / Of impious stubbornness; 'tis unmanly grief"

The pronounciation would definitely be Im- Pee- Ous otherwise you lose the meter - although the word perserver is pronounced in the Shakespearean way

To per | se ver | In ob | sti nate | con dole | ment is | a course
Of im | pi ous | stub born | ness; 'tis | un man | ly grief

I don't think there's any 'definitely' and that's one of the many beauties of Shakespeare. He played around with meter, rhyme, language etc. There are so many ways of saying these lines that change their meaning.

See (the then) Prince Charles experiementing, with various actors, which word to stress in 'To be or not to be'!

Brilliant. Thanks!

It's hardly surprising not everyone's come across it. It's hardly an everyday word, is it? I think the last time I heard it was in English Lit at school, so over 50 years ago for me!

I've always known it pronounced "im-pie-us". "Imp-ee-us" just sounds silly, too similar to "impish" imo.

It's just the opposite of "pious"; surely people know that? 🤷‍♀️

This brought back long buried memories of singing Handel in the school choir many decades ago. It is definitely IM-pee-us (with the stress on the first syllable) here, and has remained so in my head ever since.

I thought imp eye pie because of how to say pious.

but i like imp ee ous

impy

I’m sorry, but that’s not correct. The British have never pronounced laboratory as LABratory! That’s the American way of saying it. It’s always been LabORAtree in British English.

When I studied The Revenger's Tragedy it was definitely IMP-ee-us

"Duke—royal lecher! Go, grey-haired adultery;/And thou his son, as impious steeped as he;/And thou his bastard true-begot in evil...".

Any other rhythm just wouldn't sound right.

No, you're all wrong! It's definitely "im-pie-us". <stamps foot> 😤