Stressed about FIL's filthy house and family avoiding difficult conversations

[PeppyBalonz]

I'm so stressed so just want a rant .

Background we are working parents of two small kids, always busy either with kids activities etc or maintaining our home.

FIL up to now was fit and healthy, but recently had a cancer scare and kidney removed. He now needs a hip op.

My stress point is that his house has not been cleaned for 20 yrs since his wife passed away. Both kids my husband included are too scared of upsetting him to go in and dump everything. I can't get involved as I just get told to butt out by SIL.

Honestly I want to be supportive but I just know once he gets a date for his next op or if something unforseen happens it will be all scrambling around and our family, my mental health and the kids day to day will suffer.

I just wish they could have it out with each other, say what they need to say and then move on with a long term plan to sort the house out.

I even hate bringing my kids over as it's filthy and it kills me for them so see that it's ok .

I totally get this. However, I think families engage in different ways. You're probably like my childhood/family, where honesty and discussion was normal, we'd talk through things, maybe argue, not avoid conflict and then get to a solution. However, not all families do this. I suspect your in laws can't "have it out" and discuss this. It's too difficult. If it gets raised and conflict arises they can't deal with it and it results in a rift, silent treatment etc. For ages I felt like my in laws needed to be honest with each other (a new gf for FiL was super strange and loads of other stuff), it took me a while to see that just wasn't the approach that would work at all. It's very frustrating if you're a solutions orientated, honesty is the best policy, let's clear out all the feelings now, kind of person.

You need to accept its not how their family works. Talk with your dh about your personal boundaries for you and the kids, what youre prepared to do in a crisis and what youre not. Discuss what can be done within their emotional comfort zone now. Maybe it's a cleaner or some home help that's not as drastic as everyone going in and charging through the tidying. Unfortunately, they're your dhs family and you'll need to go at their pace and respect their ways. Just have clear boundaries for yourself and the kids (dh can go on his own if there is an issue). Once you and dh have agreed what's possible and what your boundaries are, leave them to it. Be there for dh emotionally of course, but it's his job to worry/sort/support his dad and deal with his sister.

The things you can control:

1. Whether you and/or your children ever visit the house in its current state.
2. Whether you are willing to have FIL stay at your house when recuperating if professionals deem it unsafe for them to attend him at his house.

Inform your DH of those decisions in a factual way. He can then decide whether to raise it with his dad - e.g. "we need to get the home safe for you to return to as currently there are a lot of tripping hazards, and you won't want carers coming in while it's in this state". He can also tell his sister that your home isn't an option for FIL to stay. Then either your DH will have to clean it or get someone in to do it.

If there are hoarding issues then social services can get involved to help risk assess/declutter. I think the fire brigade also do home safety assessments

you have been told no
so that is your answer
you could keep making suggestions to your dh that is all

If your father can't clean, is he eligible for attendance allowance which would cover a cleaner.

@PeppyBalonz step away. Let your DH and SIL deal with it and be clear that FIL's house is too dirty to take your children. I felt the same about MILs house when she was perfectly well and in her 60s. She was just a dirty moo and the children did not visit. They were hosted at ours and visited as a little holiday. I am perplexed that an issue that os not your issue should be impacting your MH.

If he’s going in for an Operation part of the discharge ‘should’ include a MDT looking at the goal of a ‘safe’ discharge. The state of his house sounds like a barrier to discharge. In our area there is a team that’s NHS funded that deals specifically without housing issues as part of the discharge process.

The NHS has a legal and ethical duty to ensure his discharge is safe.

once he’s had thd OP is be speaking with the OTs, discharge co-ordinators and discharge social worker and telling them the extent of the problem and pushing for OTs to visit the house (they should)

Not necessarily. It’s would depend on why he ‘can’t’ clean anc whether he has a disability or illness that impacts his functioning and how it impacts his functioning.

There's also filth and filth.

There's health-hazard filth (uncleaned toilets, bunged up sinks, rotting food on work surfaces), then there's 'mess' filth of stuff stacked up everywhere that's never put away and then there's 'subjective filth' where cleanliness is not to the standard of the observer (but might be absolutely fine for the person living with it).

So I'd say it depends. But not your problem, whichever way.

As others have said, control the controllable and stop taking your kids there. My mum's house is awful, she never cleans or picks anything up. It's an hour away and I used to try to intervene. The first night I ever had away when our oldest was a baby was to clean my mum's house. Within a month it was back to the same state, there was no point. I've tried hiring cleaners, I've been and done it myself, I need to accept that she lives how she wants and it's not an acceptable environment for my children so we don't go there anymore, she comes to us. She has a lovely bedroom here, we feed her nice meals, make sure her clothes are clean and then send her back. I do sometimes feel bad about how she lives but it's not my life, I can't change who she is. I don't waste time/effort worrying about it because I can't change it.

it sounds really stressful, OP. How old are your DC?

In your shoes i would just stop going there, and if it is actually dangerous - i would point that out to DH and tell him to rethink exposing the DC to that.

Step right back and let DH and SIL handle it. Support your DH if he asks questions etc, but you don't have to physically do anything.

You don't say if this is a case of a messy, dirty house or if it's a case of hoarding. If it's hoarding-related it's very complicated. The best thing you might do in this case is read up on why addressing hoarding is so complicated (books by Gail Steketee are good), and then look at how you can best protect yourself, depending on if/how your husband and his siblings decide to act.

I completely feel your frustration as we've been in the same situation with my in-laws. Mil had dementia and Fil was just too lazy and entitled to take up the slack having never ever done any cleaning or household stuff in his entire life. He was very pampered and spoiled. In the end we all just had to step back and let him get on with it.
Thankfully he had an emergency hospital admission and we were able to place Mil in a lovely care home and because DP & his siblings held POA he couldn't force her to come back home to take care of him.

We stopped taking the kids round and when DP & I visited we would take lunch + takeaway drinks with us. If Fil went into hospital we would go to his house and remove the most dangerous bits of the rubbish accumulations, empty the fridge (and restock it) and clean the kitchen/bathroom as much as we were able. We hired a cleaner and a gardener and he sacked both because they wouldn't do what he wanted which was things completely unrelated to the jobs we'd hired them to do! He was impossible to deal with so, with Mil safely out of the way, we said we'd leave him to it because he obviously knew best and we just did 'social' visits with lunch and drinks. We all just had him over to our homes more often for dinner and to see the kids.

He died after a short illness a year later, following Mil who died two months earlier.
A few days after his funeral we rented the first of ten huge skips and emptied the house of all the rubbish and 'valuables' that Fil had hoarded thinking they were of value. A massive 90% of the house contents went into the skips due to everything being so dirty, broken and mouldy. The siblings managed to rescue some stuff (that was actually valuable) and the remaining furniture, books and things went to charity.

Unfortunately @PeppyBalonz you just have to step back and let them get on with it. We had a better last year with my in-laws because we did just step back and let Fil live as he wanted to and be to honest he was happy like that because he didn't want people messing with his home and his things. If he wanted help with something then we'd do it if it was reasonable and doable but generally it was always his way or the highway...and we chose the road to run along side his.

Agree strongly with pp that this is not your problem.

It was tricky for me to get a cleaner in for my mum. However, what sealed the deal was when visiting during the opening of the pandemic lockdown, I said to my late mum that I wasn't cleaning her house anymore. She was happy to take it onboard and never looked back. It was a boon to her life and she was happier, despite the hard resistance initially.

It’s up to him how he lives. And up to you if you decide not to visit.

If he has capacity there VERY limited options without FIL cooperation
I think they need to use the hip op as a kick start to get the house sorted for when he returns out of hospital and suitable for his rehab the practicalities are at some point someone will have to stay with him
DH and SIL are in a difficult position you can’t just charge in and start scrubbing someone’s house

I'd say to your husband that you are going to do as suggested and butt out, and tell him that you will remind them all of that later too if the shit hits the fan that you tried to get things organised and noone appreciated it.

Yup agree with PPs. My line is ‘I’ll concentrate on the kids and home so that you can support your family.’ And leave it at that. It took me years to realise my well intentioned help was seen as butting in and interfering. As soon as I let go of it all I felt so much better. Of course I speak to my husband, help him etc but I don’t get directly involved. If people try and speak to me about things I just say to speak to husband and see what he can do.

Your DH and BIL need to give their heads a wobble FAST.
FIL will have health visitors and physiotherapists come in who will report the unhealthy and no doubt UNSANITARY conditions - so embarrassing if nothing else.
People will say, depending on his age ''how could he and his family allow this to happen? Disgraceful''. Neighbours must notice.
Does it smell?
Presume clean sheets are required after a hip op that has cost NHS (TAX payer) in region of £15,000 after all. You do not want an infection occurring.

That simply will not happen. Those in care will work around the chaos.

They will put into notes the unsanitary conditions for the family to read which may lead to a family and workers conference.

You need to stay out of it. He may have mental health issues or a neurodiverse condition that has led to his house becoming out of control but that is his business and no one can force help on him unless he’s on board with it. He has his children to worry about that and it’s not your place to interfere.
In regards to taking your kids there, don’t. Just meet him out and about or invite him to your house.

My Father doesn’t know how to clean! My
Mum did everything for him, for all of their marriage, so when she died in Covid it was a nightmare. Then some guys working on his house stole some of my mothers jewellary, so he doesn’t trust strangers coming into his house. He definitely does not need benefits, that’s for sure.
By doing it every week I keep on top of it. I also make sure he is OK and looking after himself.
Not easy as I work full time, have my own house to maintain etc, but he won’t be here forever.

Read my post. I said time for her husband and sister in law to roll up their sleeves…. Surely they don’t want to see their Father live like this?

I'm really sorry, but in that case, you need to teach him, or he can sign up to the help the aged scheme where they provide vetted staff to help older people, includong cleaners and gardeners. You father is retired, he is not and has the time to do it. Personally, I don't think you should enable him.

He is 90.
i can’t teach him anything. Despite being extremely annoying, there is no way I would abandon him.

But surely you could have when he was 85 and when he couldn't manage, he could have had a cleaner. My mum has got step involved since he retired.

My mother's nearly 90 and becoming frail. She still has step, she has attendance allowance and has also always had a cleaner. I simply cannot compute a parent expecting their child to clean. I'm an only child so there is nobody to share the load.

I'd suggest to your dh that him and sil split the cost of a cleaner for while fil is in hospital and then keep it going a few days a week to come and do some work at fils house. It would give him a visitor and sort the house a bit and then the house will be in a good state for him coming home to recover in.

I would also be telling your dh that while he doesn't address it and while sil is insisting you butt out and being rude towards you, then you and the kids will not be visiting there and he will need to go on his own.