When children with SEND, who have violent outbursts, become adults

[wobblychristmastree]

Saw an article online about teachers being injured by children/young people with SEND in schools. My own child is in a (mainstream) class with a pupil who has violent outbursts, is supported by a 1:1 but my child has been injured, as have others. Clearly it’s a failure of the school, although I understand it is difficult to keep 1:1s for them due to have difficult the work is. But it got me thinking, this can’t go on indefinitely. Is the hope that they develop the skills to cope as adults? What becomes of the these when they become adults?

50% of the prison population have some form of neurodiversity. I would also expect that number is significantly higher

its really not that simple. The individuals I know who have an ASN diagnosis are super bright and know - afterwards - that their behaviour is wrong. It’s just when they explode they can’t control it. Remorse later is too late. I think these individuals will end up in jail.

This post is utter rubbish
lack of capacity due to dementia or learning difficulties warranting no criminal action being taken is not relevant

the Majority of Sen will have capacity, which is very different to emotional dysregulation and all the other reasons that lead to aggressive behaviors !!

A lady who lives near us had this and she phoned adult safeguarding and said she can’t cope anymore and her son needs removing from the family home and in the meantime she had to call the police, have him arrested and told the police she wasn’t prepared to have him back so then they had to sort it out.

it really affected her and she said she felt awful but now she says openly it was the best call she made. This was 5-6 years who and he was in his

She’s now in her late 50’s now and not in good health herself and absolutely couldn’t cope with him.

It’s a massive shame but sometime the olive arresting and the family refusing to have them back is the only way. He lives in supported living now which is better for everyone and ultimately when she dies he’s already housed so it’ll be less traumatically as he’s already moved out.

Huge sympathy tho it must be really difficult 😥

Lack of funding. Lack of appropriate education in SEN schools. The only SEN school in our area doesn’t teach the curriculum. So, if you have an academically able child you have to choose whether you want them to effectively be “babysat” and taught life skills, or getting them qualifications that will give them some chance of a future. It’s a difficult choice.

Not all “violent” kids go on to become violent adults. With the right support they can develop the proper strategies. Unfortunately that support is hard to come by and parents are left trying to deal with it themselves.

I’m wondering, if an autistic adult violently assaults someone because of their autism and they couldn’t help it would they be treated like anyone else who’d done this? Eg. Would they go to prison or would they be found not-guilty because of diminished responsibility?

Are you an academic? You read like one, not in a bad way!

you are right about those hidden costs, it’s obvious to me see the situation from the outside.

Yes the poster upthread also shows a lack of understanding about the criminal court systems vs court of protection.

Courts can and do of course issue DOLs orders but the LA has to apply for that and have found a placement that can accommodate the person and apply the restrictions requested. A court cant 'order' a care package or care home, it doesnt work like that.

This is good to read. Thank you for responding. It is heartwarming that your child did get good support because we seem only to hear the opposite.

They would be treat like anyone else

Far from academic!! lol

I work in 'the business' and have done for several decades. I could see Care in the Community for what it was when it first came in and now we as a society, the general public and service users are paying for that.

its not fashionable or politically correct to argue that more people should have their liberty restricted or be placed in care or be differentiated from their peers by not attending mainstream, certainly not children. But we are failing those who are struggling in mainstream school and mainstream life.

It is so hard. I once worked in an amazing special school which specialised in ASD. There was so much work done with pupils on recognising triggers, how to cope with triggers, going out and about where triggers were (other people/ noise/ lighting) and practicing strategies. Many students who had been at the school since year 4, by year 10 or 11 were quite good at recognising their triggers and using their strategies or remove themselves or seek help to move away from their triggers. Every staff member at that school was fully trained and experienced in supporting young people with ASD.

My nephew's attend a similar school and have attended since they were 7 (they are now 14 and 15). They still have meltdowns and still struggle from time to time (usually unexpected change or build up to change in routine or if their request to escape is missed/ ignored/ denied) but they are much much better at recognising and communicating that they are struggling so the adults around them can help. They are able to advocate for themselves as they have got older and will say things like "it's too noisy/ busy/ hot/ for me now, can I go outside" or "I don't like the food/ noise/ expectations around Christmas/ birthday celebrations". Meltdowns have gone from multiple daily occurrences to around 1 or 2 times every couple of months depending on what's going on.

Sadly the same cannot be said for mainstream. Many 1:1s and even daily teaching and support staff do not have adequate training or knowledge to support a young person with SEN, many are literally just hired to be a body to meet the ratio. There is no space and the adults don't know how to help students recognise and manage triggers. Mainstream doesn't have the curriculum space to work intensively on practicing encountering triggers and using strategies and it's very much on the 1:1 to manage this, by which the 1:1 is usually fire fighting and trying to get them to participate in lessons and as much of the timetable as possible.

Diminished responsibility = impaired mental functioning in a unlikely to a case for defense due to autism

it’s relevant when someone lacks capacity to understand, retain information and weigh up consequences

such as not able to comprehend that hurting people is not allowed
not being able to retain that Information

aggression related to emotional dysregulation is not the same as lack of capacity

It’s just a general rule of life I have to try not to judge, difficult though!

Thank you for explaining that

My son is autistic and only occasionally has meltdowns (although he doesn't hurt other people). He has had a shut down in public though and an ambulance was called.

Many many people in the prison system have some form of special needs or neurodiversity.

That said, many also learn impulse control as their brains develop. My eldest used to be a violent little thing when he was younger but we have made huge progress as he begins to be able to control his impulses

On the lack of capacity. There have been some famous cases where killers have googled in ASD is a legal defence before committing the crime. I do wonder about how children with some SEND needs can be disciplined/experience consequences so they can grow to understand the impact of others etc, like you do with toddlers and like is necessary to keep kids out of prison.

do the young people in mainstream settings get the opportunity to do the reflective work, learn their triggers etc? Surely that’s more important that learning about volcanoes..

They go to prison, like they should

So I think I understand it as the societal view is that the violence is not the fault of the child/the school’s fault until 18 when it is their fault and then its prison.

so I wonder what happens inbetween, with teenagers to help them transition into taking responsibility for their actions?

DS1 is 27 and autistic, and he had extremely violent meltdowns in primary school including throwing chairs, attacking staff, the other children had to leave the classroom for safety etc. It was a long slog but eventually he got funding for a specialist residential ASD school which taught a "waking day curriculum", with intensive interventions carried out by all staff. He boarded there for eight years and as an adult he is able to manage his behaviours and never has serious meltdowns. It had an academic curriculum and sadly he didn't engage with that, and he wasn't seen as a success story of the school although looking at his behaviour and mental health, he has done well. He lives at home and spends his time doing online gaming and other online groups, and will sometimes go out on his own to visit places. He is unlikely to work and there's no expectation for him to do so, so he isn't often in situations that would trigger him.

They lose support as adults, a lot continue to be violent and eventually enter the prison system, and sadly a very small number of them end up killing their own mothers (because the mother is the only person still hanging in there trying to look after them) More than 170 mothers killed by their sons in 15 years in UK, report reveals | Femicide | The Guardian

Look into the terribly sad case of Brianna Ghey - her murderers had neurodivergences and personality disorders
they were under 18
they had capacity and were found guilty of murder

The first answers are quite extreme, there are also plenty of children like my DS (SN) who used to hit in early primary but doesn’t do it anymore since Y6. Similar stories for my friends with neurodiverse children.

Edited to add: the improvement in behaviour was thanks to: moving him to a private school with v small classes and plenty of support staff, therapy sessions, OT sessions, systematic consequences after hitting, etc. And obviously, him getting more mature, wanting to fit in and have friends.