Why would school refuse a call and insist on a meeting

[Insistingonit]

My dd is in year 5. Attendance hasn’t been good due to frequent illness. Once she got to 90% the school insisted on a GP appt to verify Illness each time which we did. We already supply the appt letters for appts in school time.

She is now at 88% . We have continued to provide proof of illness. They are insisting on speaking to us we agreed and said we will arrange a phone or video call. They said it has to be in person. Why? We are happy to discuss but don’t see the difference?

Schools are so terrified of Ofsted that staff are afraid of doing the wrong thing and that makes them rigid. It's good that you are seeing the meeting as one where you can get your points across too rather than you being summoned by school and being told what to do.

You can certainly ask that they encourage children to be more thorough when washing their hands. That might well reduce the potential for bugs. They can’t be policed all the time to ensure that though, so it’s a question of parents reminding their children to wash their hands thoroughly, as well as teachers doing so.

As far as cleaning the school is concerned, the capacity for that has reduced, as with many other things in education.

The big difference between banks and schools is that the former are driven by the profit motive. State schools are not and what they provide is much more complex than what banks offer when it comes to managing relationships. Neither as a parent nor a school governor have I come across school policy being presented as law unless that is stated by the school. Parents have the opportunity to be clear on what a school expects from them when they sign all the papers they get sent when a child joins a school.

'Guidance' makes things tricky because it leaves things down to the judgement of the school. It would be a reasonable interpretation of the guidance for parents of pupils with attendance of below 90% to be asked for medical evidence if a child is off ill, which may be what has happened

As to why an online meeting wasn't offered to start with, probably a combination of the attendance lead believing they had to follow the process to the letter and staff not feeling they can use their own judgement, which ultimately is about the culture in the school.

Your 'personal fiefdom' is my 'headteacher taking accountability'. In a three-entry primary, a head has potentially 630 sets of parents to manage/keep happy, some separated. Processes are vital because you can't offer a personal service to each family, much as you may wish to. Since Covid, pupil behaviour has got worse. The cost of living crisis means schools are on the front line, arranging food and clothing for pupils. CAMHS is depleted. Budgets are stretched. Poor safeguarding can lead to a limiting Ofsted judgement, even if teaching and learning are good or outstanding. Teacher retention is poor. The majority of schools act in the best interest of pupils. The starting point for parents should be to see school as an ally, because usually, that's the best approach for the child.

I don`t get the face to face being "more impactful", depending on what the parent does for work they may be used to being in meetings all day with maybe high level people, why would sitting down with a couple of Geography teachers and a box ticking Head teacher have any impact, it isn"t going to embarrass most people, and being embarrassed still doesn"t cure viruses?

Oh Yes, because overwhelming the system with referrals for spurious reasons like “you sound pissy”, “I don’t like your tone” and “you didn’t jump when I said so” will really help vulnerable children.

There is no abuse or neglect evident in any of OP’s posts, some posters just assumed/made it up to justify the school being unreasonable.

The starting point for parents should be to see school as an ally, because usually, that's the best approach for the child.

You can ask an ally for a reasonable adjustment if what they're asking of you is impractical or would be very expensive for you to do, like more unpaid leave from work. As OP has done, and they have agreed to. Whole thread of castigating OP about what turns out to have been a non-issue once the right person was asked.

Processes are vital because you can't offer a personal service to each family, much as you may wish to.

Given the purpose for a meeting, f2f or otherwise, is to offer individualised support for this particular child whose attendance is particularly low, this point isn't particularly relevant.

It should not just be children that they encourage, but the parents too, even if dressed up as showing an example. Those that turn up in pyjamas or other night clothes with a coat on, if that happens, cannot be people who you think would have washed their hands thoroughly.

I haven't been as clear as I could have been about banks. I didn't have meetings in mind when making comparisons with schools. An example of what I did have in mind is, say, a bank requesting two pieces of ID. Few people would intervene and say they would produce just one and that a passport alone did the job. Yet some parents intervene over a whole range of things when it comes to schools: detentions are stupid so my child's not going, these children were given an award and my child should be too, do a nativity play and not a seasonal celebration, my child should be in set 1, my child didn't deserve to be told off, children shouldn't be in the yard when It's very cold, I don't want my child sitting next to x, I don't agree with homework for y2 so my child's not doing it, my child should be allowed to go on the school trip to NYC even though they bolted during a one-day trip in the UK (a real MN example) etc etc. Teachers and heads are not respected for their professional knowledge in the same way as lawyers or bank employees and a host of other professions.

The thing is, OP is being perfectly respectful. She's doing the equivalent of a customer going back to the bank saying 'I don't have a passport, would you accept a driving licence for ID instead'. To stretch the analogy, some posters on the thread are saying no no you must go out and order a passport right away, the bank will be looking at you with great suspicion, go and get that passport or you will find yourself in jail for money laundering.

I don't think schools are really held to a different standard to banks in proportion to the amount of business people have with them. Banks have whole departments for handling complaints, and if those aren't resolved then the regulator has procedures for escalating. The NHS is maybe more comparable in that in a period of your life when you have need of it, you have a lot of interaction and dependence and little option to go elsewhere. Again, they have PALS and other routes to challenge if you're unhappy with your care.

The adjustment asked for turns out to have been reasonable. What's worrying is that the attendance lead had to ask the head, presumably for permission to deviate from a policy that stated face-to-face. It doesn't point to a workplace with high levels of trust. OP's posts suggest she may have asked abruptly and without giving full information, which wouldn't have encouraged the attendance lead to be accommodating either.

By 'personal service' I mean in this case taking parental preferences about meeting face-to-face. Convenience for OP would be coming to her workplace or seeing her at the weekend, or at 9pm, for example.

Now that would certainly be an unreasonable ask!

A face to face meeting is far more personal. Teachers are extremely busy so it shows they are concerned about your child and want to know how best to support her and possibly you. Family background knowledge is important and builds a bigger picture. Is DD at the expected level of attainment for her age or is she behind? Does she have friends? What is her behaviour like? Do you show an interest in her learning? It’s important that you forge good relationships with the school and her class teachers as you will be dealing with them for the next 11 years. Don’t be defensive, do take notes, pay attention to what they ask you. Thank them for their time.

Read the thread.

They have now agreed to an online meeting and OP has already explained that her child has no issues at school and isn't behind which was confirmed at a recent (face to face) parents evening.

How is any of that relevant when each absence is documented as medical, and indeed for some of them the school themselves actually sent the child home? They can be as concerned as they like, it won't affect whether the child is or not susceptible to the next infection that comes along.

It’s highly relevant because if the sickness is ongoing it will have to be managed and factored in to the child’s learning. I really don’t understand why being asked to go into the child’s school is so triggering.

OP has had a lot of time off work already, it is completely understandable that she wants to avoid more when it isn't necessary.

Though it doesn't matter now since the school have seen sense and have agreed to an online meeting.

Groundhog day! Dalston, there's a "see all" button where you can read the OP's contributions if you don't want to read everyone's.

I know school protocols in the UK are different from here in the US, but IMO, the school is doing a power play/control move. You've supplied doctor's notes documenting her illnesses, so what is there to be gained from an in-person interview? Is this her first year in school? If so, it's not so unusual for a kid to have more frequent illnesses that first year. They're suddenly exposed to a lot more kids (and adults), and kids that age are not the most vigilant about not sharing...everything? Sneezes, coughs, cookies, etc. My eldest had either a cold, rash, virus, etc. over and over the year he started school. In fact, when I started teaching, the same thing happened to me. Schools are petri dishes!

Glad to see they have moved it online now

@FeelingSadToday1You’ve put your finger on it. Read the first post and thought the OP had a semi-reasonable point, even though I would still have recommended doing as the school asked. But her reluctance and intransigence bothers me. Something isn’t right here.

There is if you have an abusive husband.

Why do you keep asking why when everyone is explaining why? It comes across as strange.

You’ve literally ignored every single explanation and said yes but why? Are you ok?

Your kid has had loads of time off and you sound difficult and tricky to deal with. I doubt the teachers actually want to see you in person but they have too! It’s their job and they’re looking out for your daughter. Quite rightly so.

Agreed!!!

Why haven't you read the thread? They actually don't have to see her in person since a video call is now agreed.