Motherhood Has Radicalised Me

[IWantThisJob]

The social and cultural conditions of motherhood are actively cruel to women.

In pregnancy and birth we are often not listened to, or patronised, or have our pain minimised by medical professionals. The induction rate is sky high and it’s not uncommon for women to suffer quite extreme birth injuries and be expected to get on with it, to care for a newborn, often with very minimal support, and not make a fuss. We are often discharged, in pain, with very limited pain relief, bleeding, to care for a baby, sometimes having been awake for 3 or 4 days solidly.

Statutory paternity leave is 2 weeks. I read somewhere the other day that the average mum on maternity leave spends 8 hours a day alone with her baby.

We experience broken sleep for years on end, in my case 4 years and counting, and are expected to just carry on, go to work, earn money, listening to and managing screaming and crying and tantrums at all hours of the day and night.

Work and childcare are non functional. Most households need two incomes. Childcare is expensive, even with funding, work is often inflexible. We’re expected to work like we don’t have children and mother like we don’t work. If you work full time you might be made to feel guilt, if you don’t work you’re lazy.

The mental load! The sheer weight of the responsibility of organising everyone and everything, the cooking, the planning, and the amount of information we need to remember on a daily basis, of who needs to be where at what time, who needs to take what to school, who we need to buy a birthday present for, is proper cognitive labour. If you ask your husband to do it, he probably will, but it’s just another fucking thing that you need to do in asking. If he’s anything like mine, he’ll be a good husband and a good dad, but he just will not ‘carry’ it all in the way that you do.

School is term time, 9-3. 6 weeks to navigate over the summer. Arranging work, sorting childcare, trying to do activities with them to keep them and yourself sane (still not sleeping, still often listening to screaming).

Then there’s the cultural and social pressure. Can’t breastfeed? Failed. Had a C section? Failed. Oh they have to share a bedroom? Failed again. Are you feeding them well? Are they on track developmentally? Are they making friends and coping at school?

This model of motherhood may not be what everyone experiences, but if it what you experience, this level of pressure, expectation and sheer workload on mothers is actively cruel. It’s a feminist issue, and I have been radicalised. I feel actual anger at the way mothers are treated at a societal level.

I have two children. I work part time in a career that I love. My husband is also doing his best, just like me. But the pressure and expectation, and sacrifice of self, work, and autonomy is just not the same. I’m not depressed, I love my children desperately and I enjoy my life. This is not really a discussion about my own personal motherhood, but the general pattern within society.

Anyone else?

My experience was that DH and I did share the load before DC came along. But there wasn't much load to share! And then maternity leave tipped me into the caregiver role and him into the worker for a year which was hard to come back from despite me also working full time when I returned. What I realise now is we have different standards. This wasn't apparent before DC because there wasn't much mess, there were 2 loads of washing a week, not 2 a day. So now when I get home from work there will be STUFF everywhere, loads of washing not hung out, pencils, pens, bags all over the surfaces etc. This STUFF wasn't there before we had DC so a quick tidy of the kitchen once a week was sufficient. Now it needs to be tidied 3 times a day and it is now apparent that DH doesn't really care if it's cluttered. I do. Same with the rest of the rooms.

I think the hardest bit is also the societal pressure women face. DH will provide a dinner for the DC. He doesn't have to be asked. He will shop for them. But he will buy crap, he will feed them crap, he won't care and he won't feel guilty about it. In contrast, I am bombarded with guilt tripping newsfeeds about avoiding all UPF, make everything from scratch, make them drink water, but not in a plastic bottle because then they will die, don't wash the dishes with dishwasher products as it'll eat their insides alive, they should be eating 5 a day, but not fruit as that's terrible and they'll die of diabetes before they reach secondary school, make sure they have protein but not nuts because that will kill other children, or meat because that's bad but don't use soya because that destroys forests and no eggs but also they need eggs and meat and fish, but not fish with heavy metals in it, and no farmed salmon because it's full of worms or something aaaaarrrrrgggh!

This is exactly what happened with me. There was so little to do before kids I didn't acknowledge the difference in standards. My husband does not have the same standards, he doesn't feel pressure over getting things right, if the kids have chicken nuggets 3 times a week he's fine with it, I think in general men are more lax on all the details, which leads to women picking up the slack to keep the standards high for the kids.

It's a no win situation for mothers that want the best for their kids. We can't simply "not do it" because it will kill us to see our children suffer, or the house a complete mess, clothes unironed etc the list is endless. I can't go to bed with pots unwashed, my husband says what's the big deal!? Therefore I do it.

There are obviously exceptions, men that have OCD or extreme organisation skills pre kids , are much better at keeping their wives happy because they also have high standards.

This.
I get that you are in the trenches but in a lifetime it's a relatively brief window and the very hardest part is probably five years.

Mine were born in 90s. We were very much older parents so perhaps more pragmatic about the loss of freedom. There was no free nursery care and my childcare cost more than I earned but I carried on, albeit part time, in order to keep a foot in the door. Pointless sacrifice as I could have taken a few years out. DH did his share, even more so as they got older.
Mine are late 20s now and an absolute joy. Kind, funny, helpful,, great company, lovely people who would do anything for me.

If I had the choice again I would start a little younger than 37 and be a SAHM for at least five years.

Thought of this thread when reading this article: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy0d59e7wjlo

As much as I know that men are capable of learning and performing tasks for infant care, I think that you're always onto a loser if you fight biology rather than work with it.

Men both need to understand the changes that happen to women and to embrace their part in supporting that. (I understood the need for women to have a separate space during our antenatal classes, but loathed the act that men were sent off for a drink rather than learning the impacts on women!)

Society needs to move to a reduced workload for EVERYONE, frankly, but especially for both parents in the preschool years. Longer paternity leave. Enhanced rights to flexibility for parents of an under-5. Increased maternity pay.

I haven't managed to read many replies so far, so this might have already been said.

I've experienced all that in the OP and more as a mother, and the thing I find most sad (infuriating and other emotions), is that the judgement I've had as a mother and a woman, have all come from other women.

A few people who were very nasty and judgemental to me have now had their own children and seem to have short memories, complaining about how judged they feel, and how diffocult things are for them etc. I refuse to be that person, as much as I'd love to point out and ask why they themselves treated me and others badly with their judgement, I just can't.

I have found this also. At work, older women were outright contemptuous of women with young children (caustic comments about a colleague on Teams, when ironically they couldn't see that I was pregnant).

Male colleagues were either likely to defer to my experience or to be understanding. Very supportive male manager and my much older mat leave cover.

But my very least favourite contribution on Mumsnet is, "you sound anxious", "women these days stress so much, I weaned my child on leftovers dunked in the toilet and they turned out fine", "PFB, wait until you have two!".

MN has an ageing community, and IMO there's a real trend of women coming to the site for support and being told that they're over anxious idiots for their questions, and that they're privileged for their current employment rights.

I think those people are leaving for more supportive communities.

I think it's fair to say that among all the radical feminists that existed in the 1970s, Simone de Beauvoir is one such feminist that has a lot to answer for.

"No woman should be authorized to stay at home and raise her children. Society should be totally different. Women should not have that choice, precisely because if there is such a choice, too many women will make that one."

Society is not geared to women raising children, it's geared to them commuting to an office to sit in all day and therefore treating their homes (that they're renting or servicing a mortgage on) like a place to visit for a few hours in the week.

Women can have jobs, but the office jobs are the ones actively killing society and making everyone miserable.

I'm starting maternity leave in a couple of weeks and I can't wait. I've shared as much of my leave as possible with my husband so that he has 5 weeks instead of the pathetic 2. It's the best I can do in a society that doesn't want people having children.

I didn't acknowledge the difference in standards.

I don't think pre kids our standards were that different - it just I got way more judgement usually from other women post kids.

Though it's been interesting watching DH on occaisons he done something like cook the meal and IL can see this and turn round and thank me - he can see those digs and understands getting upset his effort gets ingored.

100% agree
My husband is a good man and father but at the end of the day fathers can’t share the load of being pregnant, giving birth and breastfeeding. I don’t think pushing mums to share maternity leave and go back to work earlier is the answer, i wouldn’t have wanted that personally, I loved both my maternity leaves.
I wanted children and I wouldn’t change having them but I wish it was easier to be a mum , I would have loved to stay at home with my DDs for a few years but we couldn’t afford it and there was just generally an expectation that as a woman with a professional job I would go back (I compromised with part time for a few years)

Totally agree, although my experience was mixed with quite a few younger women too.

"women these days stress so much, I weaned my child on leftovers dunked in the toilet and they turned out fine", "PFB, wait until you have two!".

This made me laugh 😂🤣

I have heard this from other women with adult DC and can't relate at all. I have always been happy to work, even with very young DC. I really struggled being at home the whole time, even though I did see friends, go to classes etc. Working gives me a good balance between having time with my children (and yes, you do have time for your preschoolers when you're a working mum).
Many, many women my age feel exactly the same. Working FT with a long commute is a nightmare of course, but most women I know don't work FT.

I wonder what the reason is for this difference between generations. Is the older generation looking back with rose tinted spectacles? Or are women complying to societal pressure?

I think it's fair to say that among all the radical feminists that existed in the 1970s, Simone de Beauvoir is one such feminist that has a lot to answer

I often feel that sentiment on here or even further that women shouldn't even want kids cetrainly not have them - that we were given a choice and made the wrong one.

Society seem to want to continue to make it ever harder to have kids and I don't see that changing any time soon so more couples and women will look and say well no not for me as it's too much of a bruden and I can't blame them.

Though oddly as I do think the burden hits mothers harder - it's mostly men IME wanting to wait who aren't sure and who can in our society walk away very easily and frequently do just that.

I think it's personal choice, and women should certainly have that choice. My frustration is that the system is now set up to push women back to work as early as possible, taking away the choice to stay at home. I know many mothers that did not want to return to work.

Having two household incomes should be a choice to improve lifestyle or if it's the preferred choice by the family, it's not anymore, we need two wages to survive and pay all the bills.

I also think working part time provides some balance, but many workplaces won't accept it. I disagree that a full time working mum has sufficient time with their pre schoolers. Working a full time 9-5 office job you are essentially spending 2 hours maximum a night with them, with an 8pm bedtime. Then weekends. It's completely unfair.

I agree about FT being too much with DC, actually personally I believe no one should be working more than 30 hours unless it's exclusively wfh. We should all be slowing down.
However I think choosing to give up work as a mother is a risky choice in many, many ways and not one I'd encourage anyone to do.

Yes, I agree on it being a risky choice, women are stuck between a rock and hard place .

I think it should be compulsory for employers to allow returning on a part time basis until children are past primary school age.

I encourage any women that are thinking of having children reading this thread to think hard on how both your jobs fit. I went into motherhood naively thinking "well everyone else manages it". It's HARD. I've noticed it makes a significant difference if one of you work from home all the time, because household tasks can be done while working, and they can often do drop off/pick ups. I have a husband that does site work, he's gone by 6am and is back after 5. They do not get flexibility, these men would get laughed off site by their managers if they asked to leave early to do pick up.

Think carefully girls because no matter how much we push for it to be equal I firmly believe it never will.

As an employer, I always LOVED offering flex roles. Our minimum ask was usually 20hpw all year or 30hpw term time only, but we were always willing to flex the role and the hours to suit the person, and we reaped the rewards of brilliant staff who gave it their all for the amount of time that they could reasonably give their all.

I firmly believe that undistracted staff who aren't juggling will do better than those with half their mind on a thousand other jobs.

I was part of an investigation at my current work that revealed that HR had discussed making a "menu" of flexible work choices offered rather than take each application on its merits. Which was a real shame, but not unexpected as they had pushed back on my compressed hours application (which was BS anyway, as plenty of people work longer days every day!).

Me too - but I think the op's point is - why does it have to be that way?

And it is hard not to agree with her.

We all slug it out in one way or another but there is no denying, imo, the OP's well presented argument.

There is really no reason why women should have to go through that process.

But why do wives and girlfriends have to teach/show/insist?

Shouldn't that be locked in much earlier ?

I think we breed men to have certain expectations and rights.

As a school girl, we all had to go to watch the boys play rugby but a comparable expectation from them was not on the table. Terrible - in the 80s.

How surprised was I when my own children were in school, and their best friend's brother was excused for the his sister's soccer match because he would be "bored." However, the sister was expected to support him?

Plus ca change and all that...

This is a roots issue not a woman issue.

Well, I don't disagree. But someone is going to have to drive the change, and it ain't going to be men.

Interesting because when I had mine in the 90s part time and part year contracts were a new thing in my work (civil service). Prior to that it was return full time or not at all. Very few went back full time after babies though some took a five year career break.
When part time contracts came in absolutely everyone returned to work, massive bonus for employer who didn't have to train replacement staff. I followed what everyone else did largely because it seemed expected. So definitely complying to societal pressure. I said in my first post that if I was doing it again I would take at least five years out.

I do remember DH saying he might be able to WFH part of the week and laughing at him. With a small baby or toddler you are either looking after them or working, I didn't see how it would be possible to do both.

Huh?? So you're ok with foreign women having children, which we then import on the basis of national need? You do realise every immigrant was once somebody's child too? And who's to be the workers in those countries we're taking the workers from? This is extractive colonialism for the 21st century. Liberation for white feminists.

At the end of the day, I think that change doesn't happen in all parts of society at an equal pace, and whilst it sucks to have men my age who were brought up without expectations of housework (looking at both my parents and ILs here...) etc, expecting them to change all by themselves is unrealistic and counterproductive.

My son is two, and we get him putting his clothes in the laundry, he gathers up cups and plates for the dishwasher, he plays with his toy baby. Whether the habits stick or not, when he's grown up, they certainly won't be new territory to him.

His grandparents have variously expressed surprise that he's tidy, he says please and thank you, he shares and takes turns, and we expect him to take part in household chores as a matter of course. But amongst his cohort of friends, his behaviour is ENTIRELY normal.

You will find school changes them. Maybe it's less of a change for some bit the subtle everyday sexism in school is very obvious if you know what to look for.