Girls at DD’s school cannot wear socks because men and boys feel uncomfortable

[Eastie77Returns]

DD’s school has placed a ban on girls wearing socks due to persistent issues with girls wearing skirts that are too short and not the school’s regulation kilts. According to the e-mail sent to parents, girls wearing socks with said short skirts has resulted in some “members of the school community” feeling uncomfortable. When the issue was raised further by some parents, the (male) Deputy made it clear that it was essentially unfair to male pupils, and presumably teachers, to be made to feel awkward when girls undergarments were visible to them. There have also been issues with boys making suggestive comments to girls in short skirts.

I support the school enforcing school uniform policy but hate the fact that 12 year old DD and her friends are already being policed as to what they can or cannot wear because…men. DD hates the thick black tights she now has to wear. She always wore the correct length skirt and knee high socks.

The situation will apparently be reviewed ahead of the warmer months. I just feel this reinforces the view that girls & women need to ensure they dress in a way that doesn’t attract male attention but boys are not learning that inappropriate comments and behaviour towards a girl because of the way she dresses is completely unacceptable.

Is this a state school thing or do private schools have this as well?

The parents who complain about what their girls are allowed/not allowed to wear are the ones that end up wingeing in the local media.

'My Precious was sent home for showing her knickers in school. It's the perves that are wrong, not her!'

Also a sensible option and what many schools have opted to do.

Sorry but I agree, some of the young girls from schools near me look like a perverts dream, luckily my grandaugher is a little on the larger side and prefers school trousers, trousers should be an option at schools for all girls

At first I was going to say the school were being ridiculous (and the deputies reasoning that it's specifically unfair on boys is stupid...) but @GrannyAchingsShepherdsHut makes a really good point.

We mainly wore trousers at school, but there was a trend for leaving as many buttons of our shirts undone as possible. Accusing teachers of looking at your bra when they asked you to fasten your buttons was a bit of a sport (And I still feel sorry for the poor shy maths teacher who became the target of accusations of being a 'perv' after telling a student to button up. She responded by mimicking pole dancing and spread the rumour that he had a hard on. He didn't, but how mortifying to have a class of 14 year olds shouting "sir has a boner!" whilst trying unsuccessfully to get a dancing pupil the eff out of your classroom!).

If your daughter doesn't like tights, could you suggest she wears trousers (if girls aren't allowed to wear trousers then the school really is unreasonable).

It seems odd to me that we still have gendered school uniforms. Trousers for everyone, problem solved.

All the time girls are allowed to wear skirts, some girls will roll them up. Some adult men will leer at them and some adult men will be horrified but afraid to say anything in case they’re accused of leering at them. Schools will try to resolve this with rules about tights and so on, girls will complain they’re being objectified, but probably won’t criticise their fellow girls who roll up their skirts such that this intervention is seen as necessary. I don’t want to see the crease of anyone’s arse at a bus stop, and I see that quite often.

Trousers, and be done with it.

The Deputy needs his hard drive checking. You would have got a better response if you'd posted this in Feminism and Women's Rights. You are absolutely right though, his rationale is totally unacceptable. Outdated sexist bullshit seems to be coming back into fashion. The decision is ludicrous.

I think this is a sensitive issue. No, pupils' underwear shouldn't be showing and schools are within their right to police this and enforce school uniform codes, but what teenage girl wants to wear a knee length skirt in this day and age? (said in hyperbole of course as I know some girls are fine with wearing knee length skirts, but many, many girls don't want to wear these when shorter skirts have been a social norm for years now). It seems draconian to me and I think a middle ground should be found between expecting girls to wear things that have been considered unfashionable for decades now, and allowing them to wear a skirt so short that it's showing their underwear. And before anyone says 'girls are at school to learn, not to look pretty/fashionable', I think that's really dismissive of the social element of school and the fact that it's completely normal and natural for heterosexual girls to want to feel attractive to members of the opposite sex. If you make them wear outfits that they feel embarrassed and self-conscious in, that's going to hinder their learning while they're on school grounds.

When I was at school (about a decade ago) we had the exact same issues, only the teachers didn't care about boys walking around with their boxers showing, it was only girls' underwear they strictly policed. I appreciate that may not be the case in academies that expect boys to wear ties and blazers and are in general much stricter for ALL pupils, in which case having strict skirt length rules seems completely reasonable, but I imagine in many schools that are like mine was, there may be some unfair restrictions being placed on female pupils that male pupils aren't subjected to.

Maybe there could be a simple marks system where the pupil gets a mark for each skirt-crime and when there are three, or five, or whatever, they get detention. It surely doesn't have to take up much time. Just make it so that the more they disobey, the more time they spend in school! I wouldn't have thought it would take up too much time, but perhaps I'm wrong - I'm not a teacher.

If a boy wears clothes that shows his underwear or flesh in a way that makes girls feel uncomfortable, and is against the rules, who is to blame in your view? The girls for being uncomfortable?

At our local state school the girls all wear trousers.

It's the private school girls who are walking round flashing their underwear

It's a school, not a nightclub and no student or staff member, regardless of gender should be walking around with their arse hanging out.

I keep hearing this about girls and hiking their skirts up these days. I was a mid-late teen in the early Nineties, and no one wore short skirts. But the Nineties was quite a covered-up era. Of course, these days, clothing for teen girls is much much skimpier and highly sexualised than it was back then, thanks to the sodding internet and social media.

I think it’s perfectly reasonable for teaching staff in mainstream secondary schools not to be routinely exposed to seeing children’s underwear. It’s also reasonable to put arrangements in place that avoid them needing to have discussions with children on a regular basis about the fact they can see their underwear.

The justification from the school is clumsy, but the underlying principle seems sound.

There’s a place for freedom of expression, there’s also a place for maintaining decency.

100% agree that the reason given is awful. Teachers should enforce the skirts rule.

I'm also shocked by how short many of the girls'
skirts are locally.

My DD is in 6th form and no such rule but some of the skirt lengths are ridiculous. They probably spend so much time trying to police it, so this makes sense. I’d tell my DD she would have to suck it up, as society has rules. I’d imagine its not just men uncomfortable. I could see someone’s arse cheek last week. That’s not suitable for school.

I’m with the school on this. Of course they should nip any form of inappropriate comments from the boys in the bud. but let’s be honest (and I’m not victim blaming) the girls are doing it to grab boys attention. I often drive past a school and the length of the skirts is shocking. Totally inappropriate for school. I also think as others have said if a male teacher was to say something he could be leaving himself open to all sorts of allegations. If pupils get away with breaking school uniform policy now they’ve got a rude awakening once they start work.

I am surprised nobody has played the hygiene card regarding these short skirts. In effect, if underwear is showing, then if you sit at a desk or on the bus, etc., you have more skin in contact with the seat and whatever it may have lurking on it! Not nice at all.

I can't believe they have put boys and mens comfort above girls. It is such a poor message. Girls rolling their shirts up is hardly a new issue, and punishing the ones who break uniform code, sure go for it. But make sure you are policing the boys as closely. Seems like the boys around here can wear whatever they want including shoes but it's the girls that get all the attention.

This has been an issue since I went to school in 2000s. I remember girls being held back after assembly and we had to kneel down and if our skirts didnt touch the floor we would get a detention. They later included shorts as part of the school uniform which solved the problem.

Succinctly put. This really is the point.

Since when did girls feel they have to show their butt cheeks to attract the boys, they are not baboons.

If it’s not for the male gaze then I don’t get it, what’s the purpose of rolling your skirt up at school? I don’t roll up my skirt to go to Sainsbury’s.

The reasoning is so stupid tbh

This is absolutely the reason that I started making my daughter wearing shorts under skirts if she didn't wear tights when she was 3 (I was laughed at). However I feel that if you are wearing skirts you should be wearing a petticoat or shorts or a skort- in order to safeguard everyone and starting it early ensures that it is routine. ..

Spot on.

I don’t want to see anyone’s undergarments.