Tourette’s/BAFTAs offensive language

[Lochroy]

I wasn’t watching, I’ve just read the article on BBC news. I will admit I know little of Tourette’s and therefore posting to understand.

The tics agree involuntary, and often use offensive language. But what I’m struggling to get my head around is excusing use of the N word because it was caused by the disability when it was (seemingly) only directed at black people?

Also presumably it’s learned vocab so children don’t have swear words as tics? How does this develop?

I fully agree with @TheEdenSide . However the organisers of the BAFTAS and the BBC have badly let down both John and the black people present if they didn't prepare them for this happening and for not editing it out

Here's a lovely little clip of John talking to a young Tourette's sufferer. This is the man who is being abused all over social media, it makes me so sad:

https://x.com/Ace109610/status/2025963681901682710

I don't think it's about the man apologising it's very clear he didn't do anything he could control and there was no intentionality to harm. However this all should have been better managed by the Baftas as there was a high likelihood that this could have happened. They could have done clear work with presenters/nominees to ensure they understand what may happen so they were making informed choice about their attendance, they could have stopped the words being broadcast live because regardless of intentionality they are words that will hurt people hearing them and that was in their control and they could have checked in and offered support to those presenters who experienced it.

There is no nuanced discussion to be had.
John Davidson had every right to be there, being celebrated for his part in the making of a film about the immense amount of work he has done in educating people about a debilitating disability ( a film that should clearly be essential viewing for many on this thread).
As a direct result of his disability, he shouted many offensive things, including the word that is the subject of this thread. Expecting him to leave/segregate himself/apologise... for something out of his control and part of his disability, is ableist.

There’s a heartbreaking scene in the film whereby John tries to hold his tics in and ends up involuntarily self harming
But it seems people would rather that than, heaven forbid, he display a disability symptom in public

Agreed, it should have been edited out. They must have known how damaging it would be

Apparently there was an announcement at the start of the event to say this might happen

John has now made a statement:

"“I wanted to thank BAFTA and everyone involved in the awards last night for their support and understanding and inviting me to attend the broadcast. I appreciated the announcement to the auditorium in advance of the recording, warning everyone that my tics are involuntary and are not a reflection of my personal beliefs. I was heartened by the round of applause that followed this announcement and felt welcomed and understood in an environment that would normally be impossible for me. In addition to the announcement by Alan Cumming, the BBC and BAFTA, I can only add that I am, and always have been deeply mortified if anyone considers my involuntary tics to be intentional or to carry any meaning... I have spent my life trying to support and empower the Tourette’s community and to teach empathy, kindness and understanding from others and I will continue to do so. I chose to leave the auditorium early into the ceremony as I was aware of the distress my tics were causing.”"

https://x.com/Variety/status/2026004174849327329

The words just come out and most people have heard them at some time as they are growing up, even if not in their own family. Not nice but a fact.

I worked in a unit that treated Tourette's patients. One day a guy came up to the clinic nurse and said, repeatedly, twitching, "I want to f you, I want to f you now", banging his hand on her desk.

She said, "Do you have an appointment?".

On the question of apologizing: nobody should have to apologize for a disability. That is unquestionable. I think it is reasonable to expect a disabled person to apologize for the harm/hurt their disability might have caused other people, in certain circumstances. It’s about responsibility. It sould be like me apologizing for my toddler running over someone’s foot with their scooter. I’m not apologizing for them doing what toddlers do - toddlers are a fact of life, wherever there are humans there are toddlers. I’m apologizing for the hurt caused by my toddler doing what toddlers do. Ultimately, my toddler is my responsibility.

John’s Tourette’s is his responsibility, like my epilepsy is mine. Not his fault, but yes his burden and yes also his responsibility.

Thank you for answering the question. Another question, what did you think when you heard what happened at the BAFTAS? The way that word was shouted and the timing? Normal for the condition? No judgement, I know it’s an awful condition and have watched a few documentaries about it.

Baftas statement:

https://x.com/I_amMukhtar/status/2026001809878188493

In reference to my post just now, this is showing responsibility.

When the bar is set so low, your response is understandable.

Two things can be true at once.

Tourettes may remove the intent but it doesn't lessen the impact. Words don’t lose the weight of their history because the person saying them can't help themselves.

Expecting all Black people to respond calmly to a word that has been used to degrade, threaten, control and dehumanise Black people for generations is unreasonable and unrealistic. You don't decide or judge impact and you certainly don't get to decide what allowances are made for disabilities.

Do you apologise every time you have an epileptic fit?
And do you have them all the time every time you’re out in public?
Should John Davidson constantly apologise every day to everyone within earshot?

Tourette’s DOES remove the intent

The impact is not the responsibility of a Tourette’s sufferer. Nothing to do with them

Absolutely this. I can’t believe this is even a conversation. If someone gay had been on stage he’d probably have shouted out something homophobic. If it was a woman it would’ve been something sexist. It is an INVOLUNTARY tic, the poor bloke. I hate that they apologised for him as well. It’s like an able-bodied companion apologising on behalf of someone in a wheelchair for getting in their way.

If you’re offended by someone with a disability behaving in a way they can’t help, you’re being ableist.

The guy with tourettes isn’t in control of what he shouts. The BBC should have edited it out!

Because there must be a part of their brain who recognised that this was the most offensive thing he could say in that moment. If they were women, I suspect he would have said cunts or whores or something similar.

Expecting all Black people to respond calmly to a word that has been used to degrade, threaten, control and dehumanise Black people for generations is unreasonable and unrealistic. You don't decide or judge impact and you certainly don't get to decide what allowances are made for disabilities

Expecting disabled people to constantly apologise and take verbal and physical abuse for the symptoms which they have NO control over is used all the time to belittle, discriminate against and oppress disabled people and hark back to times where we hid disabled people away

John Davidson can no more stop his Tourette’s than a person can change skin colour.

I havent RTFT because I will get really upset at the level of ignorance there is in the first pages I read.
It’s a DISABILITY. Would you tut at someone in a wheelchair? Or has incontinance? Shall we go back to the 50s and hide away the people with disabilities who don’t fit into this ‘Musnt offend any people’ mould?

My daughter had awful Tourette’s (well a form of it that I won’t bore you with) and has been left with awful neck pain from the violence of the tics and the desire to try nd stop them so as not to ‘offend’ anyone near her.
She shouted out all sorts of things at terrible times.
She told the man at check in that I had ‘heroin stuffed up my fanny’. That I had a gun. She once yelled at someone (a grown man) who had been brave at the dentists ‘Did you get a fucking sticker’
Sometimes it was funny, other times it wasn’t.
We just coped the best we could.
The worst was the looks on people’s faces. The tuts. The looks directed at me - as if l wanted her to be shouting ‘cunt’walkimg down the high street.
The desperation on her face when she tried to keep them in and watching her as the physical tics got worse.

Jamie Foxx has shown how ignorant the vast majority of people are.
Jamies Foxx is black. Did he have any choice over that?
Disabled people have NO CHOICE.
Ignorance however is a choice. Just like sexual abuse (alleged) is a choice Jamie. He is a cunt and l hope this comes back and bites him hard on his arse.

Poor guy felt he had to leave an awards ceremony about him / his disability because the reactions of others must have made him feel his disability was causing them distress .

I don’t agree that it should have been edited out either. It’s someone’s reality, why would
we edit that out?

Because he has a disability and it was not done on purpose! Do you seriously expect him to apologise for every rude thing he says? He would spend his entire life apologising!

It’s very sad that despite doing fantastic work around Tourette’s, educating the uneducated, that this is what people are focusing on. The irony….