No phones on ski trip

[AreTheyMad]

DD is going on a ski trip with school next week. We've just been informed they won't be allowed to use their phones during the day, only for an hour in the evening.
Would you be happy with your DC not being allowed to take their phones on the slopes?

I think it's mad, and I'm trying to formulate a mail which doesn't sound over protective pub! It means they can't call if they get separated from the group, check the map, if they injure themselves. What if the visibility is bad? Am I overreacting here?

Going out the door and going skiing are two different things. Skiing is different risk level. Even travel insurance has separate cover for winter sports, why do think insurance companies price them differently?

Oh good, you’re still on the thread. Could you provide some more info about the children dying on a school ski trip?

They will definitely be on black slopes, honestly don't know if they will be going off piste. Last year they were allowed phones. DD was in a group led by one of the trainee teachers, who as far as I'm aware, was the only adult.

I'm the "one ski instructor."

I have no issue with older students having phones with them if:

• They are only for emergency use (I always put in stops for photo opportunities at appropriate times and places);
• The students have been trained or instructed in how to deal with an emergency;
• The students respect that they are in a lesson in a challenging environment and need to pay attention at all times;

Having a phone in order to be able to reconnect with their friends is useful, but not strictly necessary. The instructor is responsible for the students in the group and there should be a procedure in place for contacting the lead teacher should a group get lost or dalayed or an individual student be injured. Your "white out" situation descibes people on a holiday, not a school group in a strictly controlled activity.

No idea! We picked up an assortment of people of different ages, some of them were youngsters, as in teens. None of them were from the UK, so language was a bit limited with some. It would have been a real PITA if they didn't have phones, as once they were down to the bottom and speaking to whoever they needed to and gave us the thumbs up, we moved on. If they hadn't had a phone, I'd have felt obliged to stick around until they were able to get in touch with someone by other means.

For example Anastasia Uglow, 2019

Are all the teachers experienced/qualified skiers?

They get phone time in the evening for ONE HOUR.

I'm in a white out. I call for help. I'm asked where I am. I go "I don't know, I can't see anything". Its in the mountains. The phone signal bounces around and can't give an accurate location. My rescuers take my phone location and start searching in that area. Except thats the wrong location. This means my rescue takes even longer. How am I better off with the phone?

After numerous issues with mobiles mountain rescue in the UK strongly advise against reliance on mobile phones for good reason based on real life incidents.

Alternatively you could follow best practice for outdoor activities which carry a certain level of danger. You properly risk assess the conditions and look at the local forecast (which have come on so much in the last few years). A responsible reputable instructor would not take a group of inexperienced teens out on the slopes in a white out if there was even a remote chance of them getting lost. Because its not worth the risk to their insurance and liability if something did happen.

The question to be asking isn't about phones, but about the qualifications of the instructors tbh.

1 pupil, not 'several'.

I'm sorry, but when was this? Was it ever reported in the newspapers?

Multiple deaths on a school trip are very, very, rare indeed and will have benn reported.

Some that have occurred are

1971 - six deaths on a winter trip to the Cairngorms

1972 - three boys fell and died on a winter trip to Snowdonia

1985 - four boys swept out to sea at Lands End

1988 - four boys fell and died in the Austrian Alps

1993 - motorway accident on the M40 killed 12

1993 - four children in canoes drowned in Lyme Bay

1997 - French Alps coach crash killed three

2000 - two girls fell and were killed in the Yorkshire Dales

There have also been plenty of other occasions more recently when an individual child has died.

But I have not heard of this case of multiple children dying that you refer to.

I'd be annoyed by this. Can sort of see the school's rationale but mobiles are part of our life. There are no longer call boxes on every street corner.

I would just trust the school on this, my DS has been on a few trips abroad with school and they have very strict rules on phones. He has been on a ski trip and I can't imagine they would have had their phones on the slopes. First of all, there isn't much free time on the slopes, they are in groups with ski instructors. It would be more likely that your daughter would loose or damage her phone than that something would happen and she needs to use it. Just chill

@AreTheyMad you obviously don't know much about the ski trip, surely that is more important than knowing whether they can have a phone or not

Surely better they have someone responsible with them, so less likely to get into difficultly, than having a phone and having someone who isn't qualified to be with them so much more likely to get into a problem

Oh sorry just to clarify my Y6 DD does NOT have a smartphone! It’s a ‘dumb’ basic phone. She keeps it switched off at home it’s only used for when she’s playing out so I can text her to come in or she can call in an emergency. I completely agree smartphones are NOT for 11yr olds! She has ASD so I would’ve wanted her to have it to text me once or twice a day whilst away to reassure her as I know she’d be homesick. She’s never been away from me

Experienced but not qualified as far as I'm aware. I suppose I was going in the basis of a child needs to be found or dug out the snow, it will be easier to locate them if they're carrying a phone! (However irrational that may be, but you read every year of avalanches being triggered above the slopes...)

That's EXACTLY what my school did!! Bloody twice!! Those foggy times were Courcheval 1990 and 1991 when I was 15 and 16, both early April. Maybe it's a foggy time of year there. It was terrifying and totally put me off ski-ing for life. We weren't technically on our own, we were in lessons in the morning and the teachers led us in the afternoons. Didn't stop everyone disappearing into the mist. The entire week was like that all week except a bit of sun on the last day during one week, and I can't remember for the other one. I remember my bloody history teacher taking us newbies on a RED run in that fog. Anyway, perhaps it was different times. Maybe they'd stay in the report all week now. That fog was seriously thick.

And what disaster happened last year that they needed a phone

This is very unusual, most school trips have ski instructors.

DS is away skiing with the school atm and they’re not allowed phones at all. First year post covid they were allowed phones and there was an issue with kids taking photos when they shouldn’t be and last year when DS went for the first time they were allowed them for two hours in the evening and there was an issue with sleeping photos and also one pupil repeatedly ignoring staff and taking his phone out on the slopes. This year the teachers leading the trip said at the meeting that they weren’t prepared to deal with children with phones because they (and parents) then constantly pushed the rules. They very bluntly said they were only prepared to do the trip if there were no phones, and any sneaked phones would mean no trip next year.

@RedToothBrush yup mobile signal in wild country areas of the UK really sucks. I'm well aware of the Mountain Rescue guidance. I've done arctic expedition training in wild and uninhabited areas of Scandinavia and had perfect phone signal throughout. The ex Norwegian military we trained with told us to never be separated from our phones and we were provided with huge battery packs to ensure we had sufficient charge for emergencies!

The alpine mountain range we just got back from had superb signal throughout. Shame we can't do better here in the UK.

I didn’t mention kids dying on a ski trip. I mentioned a kid dying on a school trip because teachers didn’t take her to the doctor- Anastasia Uglow in 2019. There were also 2 Australian kids in similar circumstances.

as to deaths on a school ski trip, there are several too, Google is your friend:

1. Kieran Brookes — February 2011 (died March 2011)
2. Poonam Bhattal — 22 February 2013
3. Hayden Waller — 18 February 2008

now, I go skiing and will take my kids skiing so I obviously accept level of risk but let’s not act as if it’s a risk free activity and has no different with a walk to school.

more so if they will be skiing just with a teacher and not a qualified ski instructor who knows the resort. Doubt that a teacher is skier on the level of the instructor and knows how to manage a ski group.

And again, someone has already explained the reality of this. They can't keep their phones away at any other time, why do you think they'll magically do it in a ski slope? The mitigation that is actually needed and and that is actually going on is the school and ski instructors mitigating the reality of kids being addicted to their phones.

@rwalker it was probably some twatty student with a phone that caused a problem last year that has resulted in no phones this year

Exactly this! So many people are conflating the experience of a family ski holiday with a school ski trip. They are 2 totally different experiences.

If it is foggy / poor visibility the children will probably be kept indoors with board games and hot chocolates.

@AreTheyMad are you still going to email the school?