Men of Mumsnet come hither and tell...

[TooBigForMyBoots]

...what do you do to further the lot of women and children? What do you do to lessen the threat to us?

Nothing and nothing.

HTH

[Which is about the level of seriousness this thread deserves.]

Did your wife not ever do anything ‘useful’? I get that things obviously ended badly and you feel bitter, but I find it hard to believe that your wife never did anything that benefited you during the time you were together and having a child together.

Having grown up around DV, my DH has gone to the aid of women that looked like they were being abused by men in public a few times. All of the women told him to fuck off. He might hover, just in case, but it’s unlikely he would intervene now.

Why so defensive?

I made this post as a counterpoint to recent threads from Mnetters who've lost faith in men.

Interesting thread with a few wild replies!

If your a man on MN and not here for nefarious reasons or to moan that your DW no longer wants to shag you then I would like to think we’re the ones that have got the message and to list the things we do to further the cause or amplify women’s voices would make us look like a bit of a tit.

What I would say is that MN inspired me to get more involved in men’s issues and do something for my fellow man. Better men make better partners and Dads and that can only be a good thing. I’ve got two lads and want them to be good men .

Maybe we're supposed to write them a firm but nevertheless non-confrontational letter.

I understand that it's shitty when the woman sticks up for the abusive partner, we all know about the kind of trauma bonding in dv relationships. As I said up thread I was the woman in that situation once, having the shit beaten out of me who's 5'7 and skinny by a man who was 6'4 and stocky. There were quite a few people around seeing it happen and they did absolutely nothing even though they could see and hear my terror when he started dragging me back home. If one man had have tried to help me I would have accepted it so bloody gratefully. And I imagine a lot of other women would be the same. If only there were more men like your husband who would at least stay close in case it got out of hand. But too many men just turn a complete blind eye and I just don't understand how they can do it

Well that's a very specific scenario. It's not really fair to invent a very specific scenario then call someone disgusting for hypothetically not taking the action you think they should have taken, in your scenario. I'm fairly sure most people would find some way of intervening if they saw an attempted murder taking place, although risking being murdered themseltwoupd be a fairly big concern for most people too.

We have had some pretty angry arguments about it and I haven’t actually gone there, but I suspect he would. Even my very tolerant son got involved and asked him to define what a woman actually was then. Of course he couldn’t answer. I mean, my DH is autistic so he might view the world in a different way than other men. It’s the one ideological position that we absolutely disagree on.

I would never be able to look at my husband the same way if he tried to say trans women are women. So sorry you have to listen to that bullshit and know he believes it 💐

The woman being attacked is a coulda, woulda, shoulda no win situation that is always put forward, similar to the 'if my ex wouldn't let me see my kids. I would camp outside the house.' scenarios.

It only works until they ring the police, or in the example of violence turn on you, get you arrested or put you in hospital.

It also says men shouldn't be violent until/unless.

Then he's a terrible feminist.

I think @MrThorpeHazell's response is quite a common reaction in men: they do nothing, then try to diminish the seriousness of the issue. It's a great example of Male Privilege in action.

Nothing more than I did for her. It was an equal relationship and neither of us expected thanks for being normal people.

I think some posters have picked my post up wrong. I'm not asking "what have you done for the women and children that you are related to"?

Male violence against women and children is a serious and costly, ongoing problem for society. Posters on Mnet often talk about the damage that is done. The News is full of stories about it. So it's not as though it's easy to ignore. Especially not here.

I'm asking the men of Mumsnet what they are doing to fix it.

"...what do you do to further the lot of women... ?"

Fuck all. Most of the women in my life are perfectly capable of forging ahead on their own. Most of my bosses have been women, for one thing.

"What do you do to lessen the threat to us?"

If there's a third world war, it'll be men being called up. Will that do you?

I quite liked your first post, it seemed honest. One point I'd make is simply, if you feel like it's not enough, then why not do more?

This is a sad fact. Violent men are a fucking scourge because that's what they do to women. I'd love to say I'd intervene if I saw a woman being abused, but how realistic is that? I have osteoporosis, though I look 'normal'. Men who abuse women have no boundaries when it comes to violence. They'll kill another man, and worry about the consequences afterwards. That's what you're getting into when you intervene in a domestic. I like to think I'd do the right thing, but let's be realistic about how it would turn out.

All your bosses have been women? Wow, I would imagine that is unusual depending the sector. All my bosses have been Men, even when I worked in the Educational sector.

I do understand a bit what you mean though. I'm a woman and I don't feel I am a victim but I would avoid violence at all costs. Most men in my life, friends and boyfriends, DH are always very helpful, protective but would all see themselves as modern men. However, we are old mellinials/gen x and I think it is just upbringing.

You do nothing. Do you deny the "mundane, everyday" threat to women and children, from men, right here, right now?

@Goldenbear I was a teacher and, for the last 16 years of my career, most of my bosses were women. I'm taking headteachers, deputy heads and assistant heads.

@TooBigForMyBoots I've just been into my local city centre and, like every other time I've been there, witnessed no threatening behaviour towards women (or men). Most of it happens behind closed doors because violent men have a streak of cowardice. If I witnessed threats or violence towards women or children, I wouldn't necessarily intervene directly, but I wouldn't walk away either.

It's true to say, however, that men in general vastly underestimate the level of sexual harassment and worse that women are subjected to.

My DH is not on MN, but he has done a ton of stuff over the last 3-4 decades to empower women from his home community overseas - financially supporting their education, helping them to apply for scholarships, helping them to acquire skills and get jobs, arguing the toss with their parents about why they should be allowed to go away to uni/play sport/not get married off at a silly age, supporting victims of domestic violence to enforce their legal rights etc. He grew up watching the women around him suffer, and it affected him deeply, so he just can't tolerate it now.

He has also been incredibly supportive of my career and an equal partner at home. And he would absolutely step in if he became aware of a woman feeling hassled or unsafe.

He can be an annoying bugger at times, but his deep and genuine commitment to the rights of women and girls is one of the reasons why I fell for him and it will always be one of the reasons why we're still together. I couldn't live with a misogynistic twat.

You were a teacher? Yet you couldn't do anything to help children suffering the scourge of misogyny in society? And you still can't.

That may be the most helpless, hopeless thing I've ever read.