BEAVERS CLUB - Safety issues or 90s approach to childhood?

[Alelou]

Hi 👋 my 6 year old son recently joined Beavers and is having a brilliant time. But I can’t help but feel uneasy about the approach to safety during the sessions. It seems the gate outside the hut is left open and the front door to the hut is also open so anyone can walk in at any time although I’m sure the leaders would notice if a kid walked out. At the end of the session kids just scramble and run around, running outside to go and play in the playground but no one is checking if the right parents are taking the right kids.

I don’t know if I’m being affected by too many scary headlines but I find it hard to relax when he’s in the club.

For those have kids in beavers is this all normal?

My friend said her rainbows is the same and my husband thinks I’m being ridiculous. He thinks it’s ‘relaxed’ but really good for DS. It does seem like a time warp of 90s childhood activities at Beavers which is great but the 90s approach to safety issues worry me a bit!

Am I overreacting? Thanks! X

Yeah, normal. It was a bit of a shock at the beginning, tbh. I don’t think the leader knew everybody’s names, allergies, conditions etc. I always relied more on the volunteering parent (as there was a rota for parents to stay). I’m dreading the first camp as a cub. Hopefully, dc will be fine.

I’m a Beavers Leader.

This certainly doesn’t sound acceptable to me. They should absolutely be checking that every child leaves with an appropriate adult. I’m also strict on ensuring I see the adult as the child is dropped off, which is a chance for them to tell me if someone else is collecting.

The door, depends on the set up really. When we are indoors, the door is shut but not locked. When we are at our outdoor location there is a gate. We’ve previously left it open, but recently had a Beaver joined who is more of a risk of leaving, so we close the gate. We don’t lock it, but it’s heavy and would absolutely delay a 7 year old for more than long enough for an adult to intervene! But then in the summer we are also often out in the woods, on hikes etc. (during which I obsessively headcount my beavers every few mins!).

All regular volunteers must be DBS checked.

Raise your concerns with the leader. If they’re not very approachable, talk to the Group Lead Volunteer, who is essentially their line manager in the role.

The risk assessment for a locked door is that an outsider intending to harm can get into an enclosed space where it is obvious where kids will run (exits, fire doors)
Outside a person intending harm could still reach the kids but the children are more spaced out which reduces risk level.

As a leader it is horrible thinking about these worst case scenarios but we have to do it.

This all sounds quite normal to me for any activity with school age children. My dc have done Beavers up to Scouts. Door is never locked, it’s a fire hazard. Children that age are expected to know not to run out the building. Different if the child has SEN, but in that case, I’d expect parents to stay and provide one to one support. Half the time ours are out on high moorland for sessions and there are no gates, children need to listen, look out for themselves and each other and not act silly in outdoor settings.

Fwiw, my other dc does gymnastics. Parents not even allowed in the gym. We wait outside. They are just released into the corridor. No one checks to see if the right child goes with the right adult. Or any adult. These are school age children, not toddlers and they should be able to find their parent or alert an adult if they can’t.

A lot of beavers/guides style sessions are ran in public places. If your DC has SEN or isn't mature enough to know to stay with the group then you need to speak to the leaders and get a safety plan in place.
Our DC has additional monitoring at guides as she is autistic with limited verbal skills so if he does have SEN then let them know and hopefully they'll be able to meet his needs.
If hes a typical 6 year old then just make sure hes aware not to go past the gate and that unless you've told him otherwise it will only be you collecting him.

Yes, it is the same in Scouts @OwlOfBrown .

Each situation has its own risk assessment, which will be different for each individual meeting place and different for if using an outside space at own hut and different if leaving the meeting place altogether. Yes, the ratio will be higher then.

That’s such an unfortunate attitude. I get so much out of being a Beaver Leader, the boys in our group can be a bit wild and noisy at times but they are mostly a good bunch who are a joy to spend time with. I don’t feel at all like I’m taking a huge risk at all.

Firstly thank you for being a leader its appreciated
I would disagree "little gain". I only volunteer occasionally but have had fun and laughed and appreciated things about the children learning new skills.
The gain for children is really great and I would hope leaders would feel proud of developing that
Ive certainly seen the difference at school residential between those who have done brownies/cubs and those who haven't.
My 18yr old and her friend used some scouting skills learnt in a situation the other week. Main one being "dont panic "

If it concerns you, can’t you just make sure you are there a bit early each time to collect your DS, so there’s no chance he will be out in the playground before you are there. My boys do a sport on a Friday night where they are just let out at the end (they have to get changed in the changing rooms and then just leave, no-one checks them out). The children all just walk across the school carpark to their parents cars, or round the corner to the next car park. They are aged 6-13. I have never had a problem with this.

i agree with what others have said about a community feel to pick up from activities - most parents know most kids and would be aware if they were being taken by someone they didn’t know or want to go with.

It's funny how nowadays you assume everyone who works with children is, I recently found out that the volunteers for junior parkrun (age 4-14) are not DBS checked or anything at all, they could be anyone random! But a parent is always around it's not just drop and go, but I was still surprised how it works.

Once I started going every week for a month as a parent volunteer I did a DBS, had to give two references, do the safeguarding training etc (I already had it all through work, but had to repeat).

We'd be happy to answer any questions, but if your child is a runner, or unable to listen to instructions then maybe consider staying to help or trying again in a few years.

Volunteering is hugely rewarding in places, but parents who have little regard for how their children behave during the session and use us for cheap childcare really are annoying (not saying that's you OP, but it definitely happens).

I was a parent volunteer for Beavees while DD attended. I was fully DBS checked

Ours is locked and only opened when time to come in and leave.

My daughters dance class is also a locked door whilst in session.

I’m a rainbows leader. At drop off parents are free to enter the hall to chat with leaders and hang up jackets etc but a leader is at the door making sure no one does a runner. At home time the parents wait outside and a leader will handover kids to parents one at a time, our door opens straight on to the street and a busy main road. The local brownie an Guide unit operates the same way (if girls are walking themselves home leaders need to be told)

We can’t lock our door as it’s a fire exit and since Southport its something we have real concerns about, to the point where we are actively looking for a new meeting place.

You are over anxious. Let your children be children. It is unhealthy for them to be monitored every minute of the day. They will grow up stronger and more resilient if they are allowed their freedom.

In Switzerland all the children get themselves to school, even the smallest. No one supervises their journey. We really are very risk averse in this country and I think it is to the detriment of our children.

Not quite related to the specific thread but in response to children walking to school by themselves -
do you have teenagers speed riding mopeds on the pavement or walking in gangs with their hands in their pants or the grown up men with the beast like dog with no leash? And that’s before we mentioned all the cars, the drugged drivers, unsavoury characters located near schools for one reason.
May be Switzerland is a tad different.

You should definitely volunteer to help OP. Beavers are just run by parents and volunteers and we need to be grateful for every single thing they do (which I’m sure you are) but if you see something that can be improved then you should be the one who does it.
Don’t take advantage of the kindness of the leaders by just taking and not giving.

Yes the volunteers will be dbs checked. I’m a brownie leader and have to have a dbs and references before we can volunteer so I suspect scouting is the same.

We meet in a school hall. The door they come through is a fire door so once closed it’s locked from the outside. Eve since that knife attack at the kids part a few years ago we had been extra vigilant with our doo. We used to prop it open in summer but we stopped doing that. We do play out on the grass in summer though but it’s within school grounds and access isn’t massively obvious. We invite parents into the hall for dismissal at the end and know who is collecting who. We have a list of who they go home with and if it ever changes we need to be told. Sometimes we get one Karen telling me they are picking their child and their friend up later but I make sure I’ve heard of from the other child’s parent as well.

She obviously meant 90s and before

I am a Beaver leader (Beaver Team Lead) and I think your questions have been answered. But I'm still gonba put my bit in lol.

Your group will have a risk assessment that you can view - just ask - they won't (or shouldn't) be offered. I certainly wouldn't.

Every venue will have a different process.
We have a field gate. We close it about 15 mins after arrival time to discourage anyone who's not supposed to be tgere from coming in. We don't lock it as we need access for emergency vehicles.
Kids are "signed" in. That means the adult is acknowledged by the adult taking the register and knows we know their child has arrived.
Its not always me doing the registration, im often answering questions whilst another adult does it and someone else might be setting up.
Kids have to "ask" to go to the toilet, but only so we know who is where, and can check they aren't too long.

On leaving an adult must collect the child & one of the adults has to have seen them - ie, I have Fred. Fab, ok, see you next week. I also ask parents to let me know if someone different is picking them up, just so we know - a few parents take turns bringing & picking up multiple kids.
Again, can be one of 3 or 4 of the team as I might be talking to a parent about the session etc but as long as I can say oh Bella, did you see Oscar leave...yes, grandma came for him. Thats fine, they are accounted for.

We don't lock the entrance so we can exit quick in an emergency...but that might change if I have a Beaver who is a high flight risk.

Sometimes it looks like chaos to a new parent, but once they have helped a few times, they realise we have processes in place that work and the chaos is organised lol.

Now, a meeting in a park or an outing, my head counts are frequent and we always take extra helpers - just for eyes on the kids.

Also, get involved and help, even if you start as door watch, they might actually need that support if they have some over enthusiastic kids, but they don't have anyone to do it.
You will find yourself helping the sessions before you know it though.
You don't need a DBS for once or twice a term as an occasional helper, but more than twice a month, your a regular helper. The group will do your DBS for you, no cost to you.

Maybe Switzerland is different. I think though that the things you mention are not incidental to this argument. Just, maybe, our propensity for wrapping our children in cotton wool and denying them the freedom to develop resilience and independence is a contributing factor to the anti social behaviour in teenagers that you mention. Perhaps Switzerland is different precisely because it does things differently to us.

It’s different because the levels of education and culture (often following from wealth and resources) are different.
Those teenagers are not antisocial because they haven’t been pushed to be independent and resilient from a young age - often the opposite.
Of course, parents want their children to be out and about in safe communities rather than shrinking their worlds in gated, supervised playgrounds. However, as someone who walks everywhere rather than drive, I myself get intimidated often enough to judge it not safe for children.

I live in Germany and it is like the description of Switzerland, although it's not actually true any more that ALL children get themselves to school, it IS common for children to get themselves to and from school - probably 90% in Klasse 2 and older (which is equivalent to UK Year 3) and over half in Klasse 1 by this point in the school year. Everyone is assigned to their local primary school and while you can change this if you have a good reason, most people just stay with it. There is a sense of communal responsibility. Adults would help out a younger child who looked as though they were lost or in trouble.

There are still teenagers hanging around looking intimidating but it's not as common a sight as it is in the UK. There are places for teenagers to go and things for them to do, so they tend not to hang out on street corners. They can legally drink in bars (wine/beer only) from 16, although this doesn't seem common among my eldest's peer group.

Not sure what the "unsavoury characters" are about but if you mean housing for young male immigrants from largely non-white cultures, we have those too and our far right politicians/press like to stir up distrust about them too. As far as I can tell, when incidents do occur around these dwellings they tend to be mainly self-contained ie they are young possibly traumatised, almost definitely stressed out men who have been placed in a culture which is not their own in not especially nice living conditions. It tends to result in fallings out between the men, and as they are young men with not much elder guidance that tends to result in violence. And then some do commit crimes against locals, roughly at the same rate that local men of a similar age and social class commit them, suggesting this aspect is not anything to do with their cultural or ethnic background.

I’m a rainbow leader and we meet in a church hall. We have a leader at the door welcoming in the girls. Because of where we meet and the fact that other groups use the hall after us we don’t tend to lock the doors. Fortunately, we can stand at the main hall door and the toilet door at the same time so girls don’t go any further.

at the end of a meeting we line up the girls and only let them go when their grown up haas acknowledged them. Any that are on the drag/late the girls stay in the hall with us while we continue to tidy up/chat/ plan.